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Post by michedealseriana on Jan 15, 2012 6:07:16 GMT -5
Hello everybody
my Bolivian friends spoke to me about quinoa, the famous Andean pseudo-cereal (Chenopodium quinoa).
I've read that growing this plant out of the Andean region is very difficult.
Warm conditions over 32°C damage the plant.
Quinoa needs low rainfall because its seeds may sprout on the ears since the harvesting if the humidity is too high.
His production is related to the lengthening of the days, then the plant blooms necessarily after 21th semptember, too late for a temperate crop.
Pests and diseases often affect quinoa plants.
However, who has seen quinoa can see that the plant is very similar to a wild plant native of the Europe: Chenopodium album. This species is very hardy and naturally pest and diseases resistant.
And if someone will cross C. quinoa and C. album?
The target is a non-sterile hibrid with the hardiness of C. album and productive ears of C. quinoa.
Is it possible?
P.S. C. album is the quinoa most similar plant I know. The cross may be possible also with other species of the genus Chenopodium like C. capitatum or C bonus-enricus..
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Post by raymondo on Jan 15, 2012 6:31:58 GMT -5
According to at least one web site Chenopodium album and C. quinoa won't cross. But I've also read that Cucurbita maxima and C. moschata won't cross but they do. Why not try it for yourself?
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Post by orflo on Jan 15, 2012 6:40:59 GMT -5
Quinoa can be grown over here (51° North), and there are plenty of adapted varieties for all sorts of circumstances. The varieties I've tried usually flower by the beginning of August, these are certainly not daylength-sensitive!
Some varieties are indeed very sensible to rain in Autumn, I did try some of these and indeed, a plant that turns green with quinoa seed sprouts is quite disappointing, but again, that problem can be avoided by using the correct quinoa. It's the best grain I can grow over here, nutritious, grows easily, gives a good crop, is easy to tresh, and so on...Thus, that sounds and is great!
However, there's one problem with quinoa, the seeds contain saponins which are toxic and it's a very hard to remove these saponins...I've tried rinsing, boiling, soaking, nothing removes these completely (they give a very bitter taste). I'm still trying, the next step is to boil these and throw away the water, and repeat this a few times until (I hope) they are clean.
We don't have the hot and dry summers you have (although temperatures can reach over 30° on some days), but there are certainly varieties that can handle this issue as well.
It could however be interesting to try and cross these species, I've never considered this.
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Post by khoomeizhi on Jan 15, 2012 8:52:35 GMT -5
if C. album doesn't work, there's lots of other chenopodiums to try - c. berlandieri, c. nuttalliae, c. giganteum...you've probably got other options where you are, too.
...i think c. capitatum might be more trouble than it's worth.
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Jan 15, 2012 12:28:03 GMT -5
if C. album doesn't work, there's lots of other chenopodiums to try - c. berlandieri, c. nuttalliae, c. giganteum...you've probably got other options where you are, too. ...i think c. capitatum might be more trouble than it's worth. Yup...This group is a bit more specialized and/or technical than the average gardening forum: General guidelines for the general public might not apply here. We are more willing and able to spend the time and resources to attempt inter-species crosses. We know: - Species can cross with each other.
- We might get different results by doing reciprocal crosses: using each species as both the mother and the pollen donor.
- Even if the resulting cross is usually sterile, if we plant the offspring in high enough numbers a few of them might have some fertility as the chromosomes reassemble themselves into a useful genome.
- Different cultivars of a species have differing inter-species crossing ability.
- Back-crosses are often useful in inter-species breeding.
- Even if two species won't cross, a bridge species might exist allowing alleles to be transferred from one species, to the bridge species, and then on to the target species.
- We can create tetrapoids and use them as the parents of an inter-species cross.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2012 19:38:14 GMT -5
I have considered a similar project, in southern California, using Amaranths and related weeds.
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Feb 12, 2012 20:34:06 GMT -5
P.S. C. album is the quinoa most similar plant I know. The cross may be possible also with other species of the genus Chenopodium like C. capitatum or C bonus-enricus.. This article might be of interest in choosing closely related species for crossing. "Molecular Phylogenetics and Evolution Volume 62, Issue 1, January 2012, Pages 359–374 Towards a species level tree of the globally diverse genus Chenopodium (Chenopodiaceae)Susy Fuentes-Bazana, b, Guilhem Mansiona, Thomas Borscha" |
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Post by atash on Feb 13, 2012 0:29:59 GMT -5
Quinoa overall has a low natural rate of outcrossing--maybe around 2% or so. We have another species of Goosefoot more closely related to Quinoa--not sure of the species. A cross might be somewhat undesirable at least until the flavor were improved! Might be a problem in my part of the world because it is a common weed here including and especially at my farm. Quinoa was developed in the tropics, but just like the potato, it followed trade routes outside of the tropics and got as far as Chiloe Island, around 42 degrees south, where, interestingly, is also where modern potatoes were found. Like potatoes, Quinoa lost some of its tropical characteristics as it went south. It's grown on the drier side of Chiloe but Chiloe is rainier overall than typical quinoa country, and can get some summer rain (although summers overall dryish). Chilean quinoas are smaller-grained than their tropical counterparts, but are a little earlier, and a little more resistant to rain. A chap name of von Baer develops quinoas near the town of Temuco, Chile. Not very far south, but it's outside of the tropics. Several of those have gotten into cultivation here, though he has since put varietal protection on his crops. You're right that rain is a hazard to quinoa. It's specifically when the heads are almost ripe. Quinoa germinates in about 24 hours after being wet. Then the whole head comes crashing down from being top-heavy. I grew a small amount of quinoa last year on my farm at 47.5 degrees north latitude. I will grow more varieties of more quinoa--some acreage--this year. I suggest that if you are interested in quinoa, you try the Chilean varieties first, rather than the imported tropical varieties. BTW, with the tropicals, it seems to be "hit and miss". Some of them adapt surprisingly well, some don't. If you are interested in growing quinoa in a northern temperate climate, you might be interested in this: newworldcrops.com/wp/category/quinoa/ |
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Post by turtleheart on Feb 13, 2012 3:46:48 GMT -5
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Post by turtleheart on Feb 13, 2012 3:48:21 GMT -5
the same website says that Epazote is non-native...i wonder who does their research...sheesh.
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Post by oxbowfarm on Feb 13, 2012 6:03:33 GMT -5
Chenopodium berlandieri ssp. nuttalliae and C. nuttalliae seem to be the same thing, Huauzontle. This might be an interesting one to try as it already is a domesticated pseudo-grain like quinoa. A different line of this was domesticated as part of the Eastern Agricultural Complex before corn came to the Eastern Woodlands cultures in North America (according to current archeological theory, YMMV)
It also reportedly easily hybridizes with C. album.
I've never really thought about it before but it might be fun to play with the Eastern Agricultural Complex. Sumpweed anyone?
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Post by quinoaking on Mar 25, 2012 6:49:17 GMT -5
grow long term quinoa with short terms together then you may get some good seeds.I'm quinoa grower in China.
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Post by raymondo on Mar 29, 2012 4:44:41 GMT -5
quinoaking, what varieties of quinoa do you grow?
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Post by 12540dumont on Mar 29, 2012 11:16:11 GMT -5
www.underutilized-species.org/features/quinoa.htmHere they talk about a new machine that costs about $800 for processing Quinoa. You might be able to contact them about purchasing one. I think this would be one of those great machines for a couple of farmers to get together a coop. I have had no luck with quinoa processing. It uses an immense amount of water. I have tried washing it in cal lime, similarly to making Nixtamal. This was the best result I got. Boil a batch with cal lime (1 T. to 1 gallon of water). Let it sit over night. The next day rinse about 7 times. With gloves, rub the pericap off. Messy and very time consuming After this, I said I would only grow this again, if I had the proper equipment to process it. As long as you are breeding it, maybe you can breed for a thinner coat? Good luck with this.
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Post by toad on Mar 30, 2012 15:27:33 GMT -5
Anybody thinking of crossing Quinoa with Good King Henry (Chenopodium bonus-henricus) to breed a perennial semigrain? The earlier flowering might also reduce the problem with seeds germinating on the plant?
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