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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Nov 15, 2012 11:27:44 GMT -5
The premise upon which this book is based, is that the corporate model of growing food has separated us from traditional food production methods. The separation has been so thorough that the vast majority of home gardeners and small-scale market farmers are utterly oblivious to the benefits that can accrue from growing locally-adapted genetically-diverse crops, and in many cases they actively campaign against the ideas presented herein. This book endeavors to explain an alternate method of food production which is more in the line with the traditional farming practices that have been with us since time immemorial.
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Post by bunkie on Nov 15, 2012 12:42:28 GMT -5
love this thread! so much great info! the book is a terrific idea joseph and mountaindweller.
joseph, i remember you mentioning that many of the seeds the stores in your area sell are not conducive to growing in your area. the same is probably true for all the states, definitely here. this, in itself i would say, is a part of the corporate movement also. a great reason for exploring and creating one's own landrace. i would think that by creating one's own landrace, one would be creating seeds/plants that do best in one's own area...that actually GROW and PRODUCE in that area!
this is why we now are experimenting in creating landraces for our area. another reason is that our climate and seasons appear to be very 'out-of-whack the last 5 years compared to when we first moved here in '89. our seasons are two plus months behind now than what they once were, which is really messing up our planting schedules. hopefully with the seeds we develop for this area, they will have history of 'genes' that can help them thru any type of weather, having grown thru dry, wet, cold, hot, etc...seasons.
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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on Nov 15, 2012 13:43:18 GMT -5
+1 for the book idea, even if it's a pdf only online. I have some comments about it that i will post later.  |
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Post by terracotta on Nov 15, 2012 19:00:19 GMT -5
book is a nice idea only I don't know who would buy it. I have talked to many people in my area about this and the best I have gotten is a confused look like you must have gone crazy. I brought it up in a local committee meeting and must didn't even know the term " seed saving " even meant. Second they didn't know what it would be called and feared since they would then be hybrids that they just could not compete with anything and just be weak and pointless.
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Post by Drahkk on Nov 15, 2012 22:23:29 GMT -5
I'd buy it. And I think now is the perfect time to write it. Home gardening is gaining popularity every year. Folks who have been doing it for many years are often stuck in a rut, buying the same varieties every year regardless of performance, and using the same chemical fertilizers. (Definition of insanity?) BUT, among these young, new gardeners the move towards organic methods is getting stronger, and many of them are learning the value of OP / heirloom seeds. Landrace development is the next logical step in gardening for independence, and I believe the first authoritative guide on it would sell slowly at first, but gain popularity as word spread.
MB
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Post by kwilds on Nov 15, 2012 22:29:07 GMT -5
I would buy it in a heartbeat! It is a topic that desperately needs to be talked about so that people CAN get educated on the topic. Most novice gardeners have no idea how beneficial the whole idea of landraces and saving your own seed is. And I doubt many realized how easy it actually is - especially if you start with simple seeds like beans or tomatoes. As for what kind of gardener to market towards - hmmm . .. I want to say total novices because I think that they would be the ones who could benefit from it and have good gardening success before they get frustrated trying to grow poorly adapted, mass produced seed that is totally unsuitable and end up quitting. However, I do think the the ideas might be a bit intimidating for someone with no gardening experience . . . personally I like the idea of a gardening book that discusses something a bit more complex and thought provoking than what time of year to plant spinach and how tall your stakes should be for indeterminate tomatoes!
It is true that the market might be small at first and maybe starting with an ebook format that is easy and economical to produce is a good idea.
A great winter project for sure Joseph!
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Post by kwilds on Nov 15, 2012 22:32:58 GMT -5
I'd buy it. And I think now is the perfect time to write it. Home gardening is gaining popularity every year. Folks who have been doing it for many years are often stuck in a rut, buying the same varieties every year regardless of performance, and using the same chemical fertilizers. (Definition of insanity?) BUT, among these young, new gardeners the move towards organic methods is getting stronger, and many of them are learning the value of OP / heirloom seeds. Landrace development is the next logical step in gardening for independence, and I believe the first authoritative guide on it would sell slowly at first, but gain popularity as word spread. MB I agree 100%. |
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Nov 15, 2012 23:02:13 GMT -5
I previously owned a book publishing company, so that part's easy for me. These days, I'd use the services of someone like Amazon, on-line instantly or printed on demand and mailed promptly. Some of the major posts that I have made to this group were made with the intention of eventually becoming chapters in the "how to grow a landrace book": Cytoplasmic male sterility, isolation distances, how to maintain a landrace, etc. My biggest obstacle seems to be that everything is related... Each wheel of thought that I spin catches on something else, and the whole topic twirls around and around. Guess I start and see how it all shakes out. The current outline looks like this.
Foreword Abstract What is a Landrace? Biodiversity
Traditional Farming
Benefits vs Cost Food Security Potato Famine
Perennial Agriculture
Guerrilla Farming
Individual Responsibility vs Corporations
Nutrition Localization Community Collaboration
Local Adaptation
Locally-adapted vs Oregon Grown
Novices end up quitting because of getting badly adapted seed.
Corporate misfits – Seeds out of place Open Pollinated Misnomer Promiscuously Pollinated
Inbreeding Starting a Landrace Seed purity
Sourcing seeds
Hybrids
Cytoplasmic Male Sterility
Slow and Steady vs Mass Cross Maintaining a Landrace Genetic Drift
Isolation Distances
Inbreeding Depression
Seed swaps
Foreign genes
Local seed banks
Virtualization via Internet
Collaboration and Cooperative Ventures Seed saving and storing Mechanical Security
Social Safeguards Conclusion |
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Post by cortona on Nov 16, 2012 2:43:23 GMT -5
i will buy this book now !
here in italy we are a step back , we have rediscovered traditional seeds, seedsaving ecc ecc later so most of the people are focused on this but the next step is (in my wiew of the things) logicaly the landrace forming,
thanks joseph for your work!
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Post by templeton on Nov 16, 2012 7:17:44 GMT -5
Joe, You're wondering where to start, and its all mixed up? The model is in front of your face - take a landrace approach! Start with a big pile of diverse ideas and words, work on em for a season, throw out the ones that don't succeed (I'm loath to say eat them  ) sow the ones that work, look at them again after another season, ....hmm, come to think of it, that's actually what you are doing already, posting here.... derrrr Templeton....  I wonder how the sales of carol Deppe's first book went? 'Breed your own vegetable varieties' sounds like a pretty niche market, but it seems to have sold well. Rather than thinking about how it's all connected, come from the other end - what 3 or 4 things are absolutely essential to tell the landrace story? or get a landrace going? Everything else is embellishment. (I've often thought to save myself a whole lot of assessment, that rather than getting my students to write a 3000 word essay, I should get them to write me the first paragraph of a 3000 word essay...). If you only had 15 minutes of time, what would you have to tell me? My opening chapter would be 'why you should buy this book'. chapter 2 - starting a landrace - where are you horticulturally and where do you want to be? ch 3 selecting and rejecting ch 4 maintaining a landrace ch 5 landraces for friends and family...and other folks chuck in a few case studies, use lots of stories - readers like me love stories, deppe's book is full of them, it's what makes it so readable, and makes the whole thing sound possible even for a dummie like me. Next thing, the lecture circuit is your oyster... PS: Leave enough out to be sure you have enough material for the sequel - and put me down for a couple of copies, I'm sure to lend the first one out to someone. T |
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Nov 16, 2012 10:53:51 GMT -5
So by Templeton's approach: Save and/or grow your own localized seeds as individuals and communities. Don't worry much about purity or isolation. Add new germplasm from time to time. Cytoplasmic Male Sterility and Isolation Distances can be reserved for the sequel.  First Book is bait to expose people to the idea of landraces and get them started with their first landrace. Second book is for advanced practitioners. |
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Post by johno on Nov 16, 2012 11:05:20 GMT -5
This is such a great thread! The book is really taking shape.
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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on Nov 16, 2012 12:50:44 GMT -5
I like all these topics. I'm really glad your planning on talking about the "Open Pollinated" misnomer since that one really bugs me. Also, probably in the Benefits vs. Cost chapter I’d like to see a little about how breeding traditional plants in greenhouses (or specific climates) combined with large amounts of chemical fertilizers select for maladapted plants both in terms of adapted roots searching for nutrients in bad soil, and in plants not adapted to real fluctuating climate conditions. And that this affects the genetics over time.
I liked Carol Deppe's 1st editon book, but it stilll would have been nice too see at least one example for a punnit square. Since this book is about landrace breeding mostly maybe you wont even talk about specific crosses, but if you do you should provide some visual examples like a punnit square and perhaps some real photos of actual crosses.
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Nov 16, 2012 13:42:16 GMT -5
I keep saying that I want to select for tomatoes and potatoes that can be direct seeded into my garden, and will thrive. By growing transplants I am selecting for something else.
Yup. Gotta mention that accidental hybrids and segregating crosses are not franken-foods.
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Post by terracotta on Nov 16, 2012 16:06:10 GMT -5
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) sow the ones that work, look at them again after another season, ....hmm, come to think of it, that's actually what you are doing already, posting here.... derrrr Templeton.... 
First Book is bait to expose people to the idea of landraces and get them started with their first landrace. Second book is for advanced practitioners.