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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Feb 17, 2012 13:31:41 GMT -5
I am not interested in changing my soil. Even if I did a test, I am a subsistence farmer, and too poor to add enough amendments to make any difference. Sad to be quoting myself... But there is a post in me that has been trying to come out for months, but I haven't written it yet, but maybe one of these days I will.... So I'm sharing a teaser of it today... Nature's economy is larger than mine... For hundreds of thousands of years my soil has been accumulating and acquiring it's chemical composition, and it's seed bank, and it's microorganisms, and it's insects... My irrigation water travels through mile after mile of terrain, picking up the characteristics of the environment that it passes through. I am not able to compete with that... The best that I can hope for is to somewhat direct the flow in ways that are beneficial to me, and to acknowledge the inertia. |
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Feb 17, 2012 13:53:04 GMT -5
In my garden: A watermelon that is listed as 75 days in a seed catalog takes around 110 days to mature... And since I typically get around 100 frost free days, that's not good enough for my garden. My garden, and Burley Idaho gardens really are beyond the ecological range of perhaps 99% of watermelon varieties. Doesn't matter what slick national advertising The Company does, that doesn't change the climate in our gardens.
I planted hundreds of varieties of watermelon last year. I harvested 5 fruits. That's how bad it is...
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Feb 17, 2012 13:53:39 GMT -5
So GDD10C of about 1100. Ugh! what a cold garden! |
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Post by terracotta on Feb 17, 2012 15:05:07 GMT -5
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Feb 17, 2012 15:51:22 GMT -5
So GDD10C of about 1100. Ugh! what a cold garden! how did you determine this? You said your garden is 2000 GDD50F, so the standard formula for converting Fahrenheit to Celsius is 2000/9*5 = ~1100. You haven't told us much about your garden, so that seems out of kilter to me... I don't think that such a high disease load and high humidity should correspond with a very cold garden, but I haven't been everywhere. I don't think that I have grown the Malali melon. I find that crops that have been grown for seed or been developed in the northwestern north american maritime rain forest are particularly mal-adapted to my garden. It's the temperate climate that is the most dissimilar to mine. Watermelons are heat loving plants that I am trying to grow in a cold environment that they are not well adapted to. There are plenty of heat loving genes running around in the watermelon genome. In the 2011 growing season, nighttime temperatures in my garden at 5 feet above the ground were at 10C or lower 71 times after I put watermelon seeds into the ground and before they froze in the fall. Nighttime temperatures were at 11C or higher 53 times. Temperatures at leaf level with the intense radiant cooling that we get would have been even lower. Overnight temperatures were at 5C or lower 27 times. I'm trying to eliminate the heat loving genes from my gene-pool in favor of cold tolerant genes. I guess I'll do the same thing with watermelon and muskmelons that I have been doing with corn: Plant a row of seeds months ahead of normal schedule and see what if anything survives. |
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Post by terracotta on Feb 17, 2012 16:29:06 GMT -5
looked it up for each crop has a different GDD www.agron.iastate.edu/courses/Agron212/Calculations/GDD.htmso you could say your GDD is for watermelon but that would change if I were growing broccoli the base temp is when crops start to grow 50 degrees is far too cold for most crops. GDU growing degree units is the average temperature minus 50 equals heat degree days " The mean temperature on a summer day in Iowa might be 80F. If the base temperature for beans was 50F, then the beans would accumulate 30 growing degree-days. Theoretically, beans can be harvested when it accumulates a total of 1200 growing degree-days. So, if beans are planted in early April and each day thereafter averages about 30 growing degree-days, the beans would be ready for harvest about 40 days later, or around the middle of May. " www.wrcc.dri.edu/ams/degdays.html |
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Post by terracotta on Feb 17, 2012 16:33:03 GMT -5
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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on Feb 17, 2012 20:00:46 GMT -5
That's an interesting article. Some things jumped out immediately when i read the title about chlorophyll deficiency. From my observations with my purple corn and other crops it has been my notice that the ones more adapted to have cold tolerance have high amounts of anthocyanins in their leaves. From what i have read about anthocyanins they can be used (by both plants and humans) to gather energy from the sun, and are more stable at colder temperatures, and can be produced by plants even when it's too cold to produce chlorophyll. Anthocyanins are less efficient than chlorophil, but if it's cold tolerance your looking for, then i would keep a close eye on any that develop purple variegation in the leaves. |
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Post by davida on Feb 17, 2012 23:38:43 GMT -5
So GDD10C of about 1100. Ugh! what a cold garden! how did you determine this? You said your garden is 2000 GDD50F, so the standard formula for converting Fahrenheit to Celsius is 2000/9*5 = ~1100. Joseph, Since 50F equals 10C, wouldn't 2000 GDD50F equal 2000 GDD10C? David |
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Feb 18, 2012 0:17:57 GMT -5
Since 50F equals 10C, wouldn't 2000 GDD50F equal 2000 GDD10C? No. That is why it is important to specify what units we are using... 2000 GDD 10C is an exceedingly hot garden. 2000 GDD 50F is a very cold garden. To demonstrate... Lets take my garden on June 15th 2011. Low Temperature = 45F High Temperature = 80F Growing Degree days at 50 F base = ((80+45)/2) - 50 = 12 But if I was reading a Celsius thermometer: Low Temperature = 7C High Temperature = 27C Growing Degree days at 10 C base = ((27+7)/2)-10 = 7 We could get there the same way by using the F/C conversion factor ==> 12 GDD 50F* 5C/9F = 7 GDD 10C |
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Post by davida on Feb 18, 2012 1:32:28 GMT -5
Since 50F equals 10C, wouldn't 2000 GDD50F equal 2000 GDD10C? No. That is why it is important to specify what units we are using... 2000 GDD 10C is an exceedingly hot garden. 2000 GDD 50F is a very cold garden. To demonstrate... Lets take my garden on June 15th 2011. Low Temperature = 45F High Temperature = 80F Growing Degree days at 50 F base = ((80+45)/2) - 50 = 12 But if I was reading a Celsius thermometer: Low Temperature = 7C High Temperature = 27C Growing Degree days at 10 C base = ((27+7)/2)-10 = 7 We could get there the same way by using the F/C conversion factor ==> 12 GDD 50F* 5C/9F = 7 GDD 10CJoseph, Thanks for the information and example. David |
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Post by castanea on Feb 18, 2012 1:59:47 GMT -5
Who do you contact at Known You if you want to purchase more than $300 worth of seed? link to contact page: www.knownyou.com/en_index.jsp?bodyinclude=CONTACTUSIn the terms of sale it stated that that is the minimum to provide certificate. Not sure if that is for a combination of seeds or just one variety. I did not inquire as I was not in a position to proceed. They work with hot humid climates, and as such would have better performers for my summers. Thanks, Known You has some interesting melon seeds. |
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Post by castanea on Feb 18, 2012 2:01:23 GMT -5
In my garden: A watermelon that is listed as 75 days in a seed catalog takes around 110 days to mature... And since I typically get around 100 frost free days, that's not good enough for my garden. My garden, and Burley Idaho gardens really are beyond the ecological range of perhaps 99% of watermelon varieties. Doesn't matter what slick national advertising The Company does, that doesn't change the climate in our gardens. I planted hundreds of varieties of watermelon last year. I harvested 5 fruits. That's how bad it is... Gold Flower really does ripen very quickly and is also very tasty. www.fedcoseeds.com/seeds/search.php?item=1122&listname=&page=13& |
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Post by terracotta on Feb 18, 2012 13:05:27 GMT -5
That's an interesting article. Some things jumped out immediately when i read the title about chlorophyll deficiency. From my observations with my purple corn and other crops it has been my notice that the ones more adapted to have cold tolerance have high amounts of anthocyanins in their leaves. From what i have read about anthocyanins they can be used (by both plants and humans) to gather energy from the sun, and are more stable at colder temperatures, and can be produced by plants even when it's too cold to produce chlorophyll. Anthocyanins are less efficient than chlorophil, but if it's cold tolerance your looking for, then i would keep a close eye on any that develop purple variegation in the leaves. very interesting thank you. another interesting paper hortsci.ashspublications.org/content/37/3/487.full.pdfJoseph you do know that watermelon needs to be warm stratified before they will germination right? www.bellaonline.com/articles/art5526.aspI know you do low input gardening but this is as low as one can go. if you want one with thinner seed coats and thus less time to soak ( but quicker drying out) alanbishop.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=stuff&action=display&thread=6025for 66 degrees two varieties germinate at 6% the highest I have found Imperial Summer Flavor 510 |
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Feb 18, 2012 13:15:58 GMT -5
Joseph you do know that watermelon needs to be warm stratified before they will germination right? I know nothing except that I plant watermelon seeds in my garden that is ecologically unfit for them (too cold). If they germinate and grow then I harvest seeds from them and start the cycle all over again. If they don't germinate and grow then I consider them unfit for my garden. It really is my philosophy that the plant has to adapt to my garden and to my lifestyle. I'm thinking that it would be nice to pre-germinate watermelon seeds, but I'd do it on paper towels in an incubator at 90 degrees for about 3 days. Then plant them just as the root-tip is emerging. That would translate to a boost of 66 GDD 10C which would mean a one week earlier harvest. |
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