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Post by terracotta on Feb 13, 2012 12:03:43 GMT -5
The word "mutagen" sends a shiver up any plants stem but are a critical part of plant breeding. for example if I wanted a less poisnous white bryony it would take years of selection, breeding and it may never work. This is where researchers turn to ionizing radiation such as gamma rays, X-rays and UV light. UV light is a choice for most because it reliably produces thymine dimers that lead to deletion mutation. A deletion mutation makes a gene dysfunctional making it far easier to remove traits. Any good mutagens you know of? whether it be chemical or otherwise.
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Post by turtleheart on Feb 13, 2012 13:36:54 GMT -5
i feel mutated enough already. dont need any more mutagens in my life than what is already provided by nuclear proliferation, depleted ozone, and agrochemicals.
i think the sun has done a lovely job historically. i dont need to assist in mutation, just breeding and selection.
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Post by raymondo on Feb 13, 2012 16:24:58 GMT -5
I don't know much about them but isn't it still just chance that the right gene or gene combination is altered in the way you want? I can see its use if you are able to grow out and test lots of offspring but for a home gardener that would be problematic.
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Post by terracotta on Feb 13, 2012 17:13:36 GMT -5
I posted this mainly for the large group of people trying to breed bitter or poisonous varieties in large selection plots. The main problem with Joseph's perennial watermelon is everything he could breed it with are poisonous. there is two sides of this one can increase the diversity of a plant by procedures that leave no residual trace behind like radiation or out breed this is called horizontal resistance. The other side is to inbreed and back cross a variety until it has the desired uniformity and trait wanted called vertical resistance. the Irish potato famine occurred because everyone was growing the same cloned potato that preformed great a classic example of vertical resistance. horizontal resistance is essentially a land race where if a disease comes threw some will survive. What is better to keep inbreeding a variety and trying to keep it in stasis or introducing new traits?
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Post by terracotta on Jun 7, 2012 16:16:00 GMT -5
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jim
grub
Posts: 75
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Post by jim on Jun 8, 2012 22:24:18 GMT -5
I would say generally its best to stay away from mutagens...not that the average home gardener could get their hands on any of those commonly used...for good reason.
Raymondo pointed out the main problem with using them....you have no controll of what is mutated, and typically mutagens work over the entire genome, causing changes in non coding sequences and genes. Not all are good or bad...most are probably neutral.
There seem to be ways to encourage mutations. Plants grown in tissue culture often result in some low percent of somatic mutations...but again, its random. Some plants mutate easily and some don't. But, most people could set up a small kitchen lab and learn sterile technique.
Growing out lots and lots of seed...grow out enough seedlings and you are likely to find some mutant...whether its useful or not is another matter.
Polyploidy might offer a greater chance of mutations persisting....and in some plants, such as Hemerocallis, polyploidy has been credited with being essential to the appearance of all the crazy patterns, colors, and flower forms we are now seeing. A gene can mutate, but since there are 3 other copies in a 4n plant, of the gene is important the plant will continue to survive.
Jim
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Post by cesarz on Jun 9, 2012 5:00:49 GMT -5
Hi,
An example of a good mutagen is Hydrogen Peroxide. Just prick the apical tissue and drop some on to it, some mutations might occur.
Other not so good chemicals like herbicide 2-4-d in very small doses can cause mutations using the same technique as above.
Colchicine which is very dangerous is a very good mutagen almost 50% of the cells get mutated due to polyploidy or breakages in the dna, a less dangerous way is to use the juice of colchicum species (giganteum?).
The powdered seeds of celery,parsley and parsnip contain psoralene that when combined with UV (Sunlight) can break some DNA when applied to a scarred plant tissue.
Have fun!
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Post by terracotta on Jun 9, 2012 13:47:09 GMT -5
Thanks for the tips cesarz! Hydrogen peroxide is a great mutagen and used it many times Currently have a repeat blooming (4 flowers or more) apparently male only cantaloupe from it's use. I'll look into the other ones you have mentioned. many minerals like copper are also great mutagens. Iron sulfate a common dietary supplement is considered a chromosome doubler but don't add to water it produces toxic hydrogen sulfide gas.
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