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Post by bunkie on Jun 23, 2014 9:52:24 GMT -5
I'm not doing much with attempting to develop frost tolerance in watermelons... I have ended up focusing more on quick germination and robust early growth so that the plants can produce a crop in spite of the short season. This has meant smaller fruit sizes. Perhaps some day I will revisit selection for frost/cold tolerance. I have taken to germinating in pots because it makes it easier to screen for quick germination. Then I transplant bare-root into other pots, then into the field. It's nice once in a while to plant seeds from other growers to give me a comparison, and show me how far I have come... These two pots were planted on the same day and treated as near to the same as possible. One pot contains my landrace seeds, the other pot the same number of seeds of mixed varieties that people sent me as gifts.  p.s. note to USDA bureaucrats: "Foreign" in any of my writings or photographs indicates that the seeds haven't grown in my garden before, not that they crossed capriciously defined borders. That's cool Joseph! Was curious if your seeds were bigger than the others, too? I remember yoour post on seed size and the landrace being larger. I'm finding that here too in our selections. |
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Jun 23, 2014 10:14:51 GMT -5
The seed size of my watermelons is trending towards dramatically smaller seeds. Photo soon if I can find last year's seed... Sheesh already! You'd think I could find seeds that I planted about two weeks ago.
This spring I sorted out the largest tepary bean seeds and planted them in their own row. Be interesting to see what comes of that. So far they are not growing any differently.
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Post by DarJones on Jun 23, 2014 17:29:56 GMT -5
There is a correlation between smaller melons and smaller seed. You may just be seeing the result of nature forcing the genetics toward smaller melons.
If the variation in bean seed size is less than 25%, then it is not likely to be inheritable.
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Dec 25, 2014 0:50:05 GMT -5
Here's what this year's early watermelon harvest looked like. The writing on some of the melons contains a note about the mother of the melon, it's weight, and the date this year's melon was harvested. They were saved fruit to packet and I intend to plant them that way as well. The oblong watermelon on the right is my daddy's version of Charleston Gray. They were yellow fleshed, except for the Charleston Gray and the fruits with the yellow skins. I grew the yellow skinned fruits in the patch with the yellow melons, so here's hoping that some of them end up in a year or two with yellow skin AND yellow flesh.  |
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Post by 12540dumont on Dec 25, 2014 17:43:56 GMT -5
Joseph, today we ate the last of the melons for Christmas Dinner.
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Dec 25, 2014 19:04:07 GMT -5
12540dumont: Good deal on the melons. I think I still have 3 watermelons in the garage. I suppose that I aught to eat them today: Expecting weather too cold to leave them in the garage any longer.
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Post by Marches on Mar 10, 2015 12:14:08 GMT -5
A farmer who's fields are about 5 miles from mine brought a photo to market yesterday. FIRST FROST!!! I felt very cold picking berries for market Saturday morning before sunrise, but no frost for me. Not even dew. While I was in the garden Friday night, changing irrigation water by the light of the moon, I noticed something striking about my watermelons... - The 3 foreign proto-landraces, that I imported into my garden this year, stood out brightly under the moonlight. They had very gray leaves that really called attention to themselves in the moonlight.
- My daddy's version of Charleston Gray that he has grown for decades in our village was a black shadow against the soil.
- My proto-landrace that has undergone one year of adaptive selection to my garden had a slight silver glow about the leaves, but much less than the foreign landraces.
Closer observation in sunlight, showed that the trait is consistent in both daylight and moonlight... Among the 4 proto-landraces that I am growing, the only plants that have set fruits so far are the green leaved plants from my proto-landrace, which have set many fruits about 3 to 5 pounds. The silver leaved plants haven't set any fruits larger than a ping-pong ball. Not all of the green leaved plants have set fruit, but many of them have. I am calling them green leaved and silver leaved, even though the green leaved plants from the proto-landrace still have some silver in the leaves. So I'm wondering if "Green leaved" would be an easy early screening technique for plants that grow better in my garden? I wonder what it is about that phenotype that makes the plants better adapted to my garden? Also while looking closely, I noticed that there was one diploid plant that has leaves that are larger than the tetraploid plants. It is precocious. I'll definitely be wanting to convert that plant to a tetraploid!!!! Precocious, and leafs 40% larger than the largest leafs currently in my watermelon patch might be a winning combination. In trees the red leaved mutants commonly grown in gardens photosynthesize less efficiently than green leaves. And most shade tolerant plants I see seem to have darker green leaves in nature so maybe selecting for that would be best. Regarding leaf hairs - in grape species the hairs seem to deter certain insects from feeding on the plants, but act as magnets for mildew. I've thought about trying melons in England, but the climate is very cool here and I haven't been so bothered so far. I'd primarily select early lines like Charleston gray as mentioned and some frost hardiness would be good too. I have too much going on with grapes and taters at the moment though to dedicate my time to melons other than a half hearted attempt. Good luck though, I'm all for this kind of breeding. |
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Post by Marches on Mar 10, 2015 12:24:14 GMT -5
One thing I'll say though is watermelons are tropical fruit and melons are perhaps Mediterranean (coming from West Asia).
So one could probably find more frost tolerance in melons than watermelons which probably lack it.
I doubt tropical fruit can ever really be bred to be truly hardy beyond minor frost tolerance. With plant families that have a few hardier species hybridization is possible to achieve this - but truly hardy bananas, pineapples or watermelons? I think not. Probably some frost tolerance though if a real effort is made.
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Post by Marches on Mar 10, 2015 13:34:22 GMT -5
Joseph, I would be curious to get some more detail about your climate (given the 100 frost free days). I have tried, and failed to grow Watermelon previously with 365 frost free days, and now in the UK we probably have something like 210 frost free days, but given the low average temperatures (~18C / 65F) I still couldn't grow Watermelon. I assume your climate is hot from the word go when the frosts stop, and is hot until the frosts start again? I'm in the UK too. If I tried it I'd personally grow them on black plastic sheeting or in a cold frame. Cantaloupe may be easier, idk. I have a unidentified packet of melon seeds from a year or two ago. I might sow them and see what comes up (if anything). |
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Mar 10, 2015 15:23:53 GMT -5
I have a desert climate... So during the summer that means blazing hot days and chilly cold nights. (32 C to 10 C) I accumulate many more growing degree days during a season than London receives. Muskmelons have definitely been easier for me to work with than watermelons. The watermelons just manage to ripen fruit as the fall frosts are arriving. I might get 3 weeks of harvest from the muskmelons. I wonder if part of the reason is because the first couple of years that I grew muskmelons that I selected for frost tolerance by planting them way too early. I only did that one year with watermelons, and then with only part of the seed.
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Post by diane on Mar 11, 2015 12:43:31 GMT -5
I think watermelons are native to the Kalahari Desert, where I experienced temperatures between minus 8 C and plus 22 during one 24 hour period
in early spring - I don't know what the conditions would be like in the summer.
I'll be there again this year, and also in Namibia.
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Mar 11, 2015 14:15:35 GMT -5
I love seeds from feral or wild populations of domesticated crops...
I am on the USDA's seed-terrorist watch list, so I don't post in public places that I want to receive seeds from foreign countries. And I don't consent in "allegedly" private eMail to people sending me seeds from foreign places. However, I have no control over what people include in the birthday cards that they send to me.
Perhaps one of these days I'll make a post to soapbox on this topic... But not today.
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Post by Marches on Mar 12, 2015 10:14:58 GMT -5
I love seeds from feral or wild populations of domesticated crops... I am on the USDA's seed-terrorist watch list, so I don't post in public places that I want to receive seeds from foreign countries. And I don't consent in "allegedly" private eMail to people sending me seeds from foreign places. However, I have no control over what people include in the birthday cards that they send to me. Perhaps one of these days I'll make a post to soapbox on this topic... But not today. Seed terrorist watchlist? Like guerilla gardening? |
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Post by Marches on Apr 17, 2015 13:59:52 GMT -5
Are there any Cucumis species from cool climates or areas that experience frost that could be used for hybridisation purposes?
I've seen a picture of watermelons growing in the desert and I thought deserts were supposed to get cold at night.
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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on Apr 18, 2015 8:41:32 GMT -5
I also live in high semi-desert. Very similar to Joseph's. I havent grown that many melons (melons or watermelons) over the years, but i too would expect a little more frost tolerance in melons than watermelons.
But after having experience with planting my indian corn way early and having the grow before the last spring frosts for several years i can definitley see good frost tolerance. One year i planted various indian corns. Some of it started growing then got snowed on. Much of it died (roots and all), but of the ones that survived (some leaves were very frost capable, and some the leaves died but roots survived) most were the ones i had selected and bred. I think something similar can be achieved in any crop including watermelons. But i think a key is starting with seeds that already can grow ok in your climate. My teosinte project hasnt had any success so far, mainly because its not anywhere near native to my climate. This might be overcome with starting with teosinte-corn hybrids to begin with. But that is another topic entireley.
The watermelons that did best for me a few years ago were the yellow fleshed small watermelons like yellow doll that already had short season traits.
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