Jerusalem artichoke true seeds trials

[Joseph Lofthouse]

Jun 17, 2012 9:05:31 GMT -5 caledonian said:

I looked it up. Every single source says that Jerusalem Artichokes (or sunchokes, or sunroots) rarely set seed.

For example, see this. Many plants which are capable of vegetative reproduction are similar - they've lost much of their ability to reproduce sexually.

I suspect that joseph's plants have been crossed at least once with another species of sunflower.

I believe that the natural state of sunroots is to be prolifically seeded... The article you linked to provides it's version of an answer to why commercial sunroots don't generally set seeds:

Very few flowers develop seeds. The plants only produce seeds when pollinated by a different strain growing nearby.

In other words, they don't set seed due to a self incompatibility mechanism, and since sunroots are generally grown as a planting of perfect clones, they don't typically set seeds.

Each sunroot tuber that I plant is a genetically unique individual, so there is all the opportunity in the world to be pollinated by a separate strain.

Update: Biology and Chemistry of Jeruslaem Artichoke: Helianthus Tuberosus L. By Stanley J. Kays, Stephen Nottingham states:

Jerusalem artichoke is an obligate outcrosser that exhibits a high level of self-incompatibility. (Toxopeus, 1991; van de Sande Bakhuyzen and Rittenrood, 1950).

It is fascinating to me how our society is so fixated on growing monoculture clones, that people have come to believe that sunroots rarely set seed. I believe that the failure of sunroots to set seeds in modern fields says more about the farmer and his society than it does about the sunroots ability to set seed.

[benboo]

I found some wild JA colonies today. I took a couple of samples from each one. The rhizomes were red and yellowish-white. I potted them up, and hopefully a few will stabilize enough to plant out. I wonder how the wilds will compare to the true seed and commercial tuber plantings...

[Joseph Lofthouse]

benboo: If you are able to visit the site again in the late fall, it would be interesting to know how many seeds the plants produce: If the goldfinches haven't eaten them all first...

[benboo]

I will try to check back later to collect seeds and tubers. I would suppose they produce plenty of seeds, because there were seedlings all over the place.

[caledonian]

Possibly. But given how quickly they spread below ground, those may have been tuber-derived plants.

I know it's *possible* for them to produce seed when grown in mixed colonies - there are lots of bred and selected varieties - but I can't determine how frequently they produce fertile seed in those conditions. Normally, anyway.

Eric Toensmeier has suggested that people try to cross sunroots with seed sunflowers in order to get a perennial seed-producing sunflower. As I believe sunroot seeds are edible as-is, I think they must not be as prolific as common sunflowers. But it's also possible that it's an issue of seed size.

[Joseph Lofthouse]

Every sunroot plant in my mixed colony is prolifically seeded. Some plants may fail to thrive in my garden, but even the poorest plants produce hundreds of viable seeds. And the better growing plants each produce thousands of viable seeds. I'm planning on posting pictures this fall.

There is nothing unusual about my sunroots, they are just normal ordinary sunroots. Well, it might be unusual to grow a genetically diverse population instead of a monoculture clone.

[raymondo]

Jun 21, 2012 1:39:53 GMT -5 Joseph Lofthouse said:

There is nothing unusual about my sunroots, they are just normal ordinary sunroots. Well, it might be unusual to grow a genetically diverse population instead of a monoculture clone.

Your sunroot collection originally started from purchased seed, didn't Joseph? So it's been diverse from the outset.

[keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.)]

I tried planting half of the seed i got from that same place in Kansas. I don't think i got any Sunroots last year. But i have planted the other half mixed in with my sunflowers this year. I'm hoping for any crosses with sunflowers. But it's possible with the dry conditions here that they may not even germinate until next year (if at all). I have 1 corn plant this year (that i must have planted last year). And i also have a few squash like plants growing in a spot where i planted cantaloupe last year (i didn't plant any cantaloupe this year).

[Joseph Lofthouse]

Jun 21, 2012 2:59:00 GMT -5 raymondo said:

Your sunroot collection originally started from purchased seed, didn't Joseph? So it's been diverse from the outset.

Yes. Before I obtained seeds I was growing a single clone that didn't set seed. The grower of my seed wrote: "... my plants were propagated from plants found growing in native habitats around Topeka, Kansas."

[bunkie]

here's a couple pics of our jerusalem artichokes a couple years ago. they were two varieties, Red Fuseau and Stampede from Ronniger's. they were planted side by side and did produce seed. we never tried planting the seed as the birds got most of them. we have since moved them to another area, where we're fighting with moles. i'll try and save some seed this year and see if it's viable.

[caledonian]

Jun 21, 2012 1:39:53 GMT -5 Joseph Lofthouse said:

Every sunroot plant in my mixed colony is prolifically seeded.

I checked my (most recent) edition of Seed to Seed today - it also states that fertile seed is very rare. It's a fairly reliable source, although it is wrong about certain things, but more importantly it agrees with pretty much everything else I've ever read on the topic.

I've personally grown three varieties of sunroot next to each other for several years, and I've never gotten them to produce fertile seed (granted, I'm rather far north for them, and goldfinches might have been involved).

Joseph, I think you are mistaken about your plants being standard. Sunroots are well-known for being one of the plants that has been vegetatively reproduced for so long that sexual reproduction is impaired. This, in addition to their being obligate outcrossers that tend to produce genetically-uniform stands, means that they don't normally produce seed - and not as far north as you are. Usually their native range is listed as the South (they're thought to have been transplanted out of their normal range by the Native Americans).

Either you're growing out a genepool that has been selected for fertile seed production (as I'm told happens when people grow garlic from seed for multiple generations) or you're growing a genepool that has been lightly crossed with another species and now produces seeds with gusto.

Both cases are (potential) great news! But both are also news. As in, a moderately unusual event that people would like to know about.

[Joseph Lofthouse]

I have a small amount of germplasm to share this summer, and expect to have lots to share in the fall.

[Joseph Lofthouse]

Here's what my sunroot harvest looked like this year. The entire harvest from about 30 seed grown wild sunroots on the left. The harvest from one commercial sunroot on the right. I selected two plants from the wild population and inter-planted them with the domestic sunroot for next year's crop of tubers and seeds. The two wild sunroots I chose were both the most productive, and the ones with the shortest stolons. I also included a couple of plants with red colored skin or other traits I liked.



I also made a video after I finished digging the plants:
youtu.be/t_eKGYW_mf0

[oxbowfarm]

Jun 21, 2012 13:56:17 GMT -5 caledonian said:

I checked my (most recent) edition of Seed to Seed today - it also states that fertile seed is very rare. It's a fairly reliable source, although it is wrong about certain things, but more importantly it agrees with pretty much everything else I've ever read on the topic.

Seed to Seed is a good book, it has many useful rules of thumb for efficient seed saving and is generally reliable for commonly grown crops. It is NOT a true botanical reference and the less common and well researched a crop is the less reliable StS is regarding it. Jerusalem Artichokes are almost the epitome of a minor crop.

Another problem with minor crops is that a lot of writers simply copy information verbatim without actually confirming the received wisdom.

My personal suspicion is that many of the large tuber JA clones are triploid and therefore at least partially sterile. Get a garden writer growing a single triploid clone and never seeing a seed and you get the "truth" that Jerusalem Artichokes are sterile. The unprecedented thing about Joseph's experience is that he actually obtained a large sampling of JA germplasm to start with, something almost none of the folks you've read have done I'm willing to bet.

[12540dumont]

Isn't it amazing the things you learn when you start with a large genepool and then observe? I have found mistakes in Seed to Seed. If you have both the first and second edition, you can find them too.

I buy seeds from Susan Ashworth regularly, she's a fine person but even she makes mistakes with seeds