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Post by nuts on Apr 2, 2012 15:42:15 GMT -5
for me double dig is 2x 2"=4" deep,but mostly I just half dig.
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Post by abculatter2 on Apr 3, 2012 21:02:44 GMT -5
Studies have been conducted 1 by planting vegetable crops and then digging them up and measuring how deep and wide the roots go. Here is what one chapter of my favorite study has to say about Beet Roots: Essentially they go 10 feet deep and 8 feet in diameter. Wow... I never knew veggie roots were so extensive... Yeah, looking back, that idea was an instance of me really over-thinking something... I think I'll just stick with what I'm doing now, which is just layering on compost as-needed, combined with, eventually, consecutive layers of green manures, letting worms, plants, and maybe pulling up the occasional root vegetable be my tillage. This will naturally result in raised beds without, I would imagine, quite so much root confinement. YES YES YE- Damn it... Ground cherries? I've heard about those, never tried them, though... Sure, if I have room I'll give them a go. In other news, just started getting into tabbouleh. Definitely going to need lotsa parsley once this get going... And onions, and tomatos, and a few lemons... |
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Post by abculatter2 on Apr 4, 2012 11:17:37 GMT -5
Now, here's an interesting video...
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Post by abculatter2 on Apr 4, 2012 20:52:56 GMT -5
Been thinking about stuff, and I think it would be useful to have a list of winter crops to reference, and where better to do so then right here?
Of course, ideas to add to this list are welcome, and I'll be editing-in new additions as they come to me.
Rye
Vetch
Clover
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Apr 4, 2012 22:07:43 GMT -5
Been thinking about stuff, and I think it would be useful to have a list of winter crops to reference, and where better to do so then right here? For me, that's an easy list: There are no winter crops... However, Egyptian onions are an early spring crop, harvestable about 2 weeks after the winter snow-cover melts. And sunroots will stay overwinter in the ground, dormant, waiting to be dug whenever the ground isn't frozen. Winter wheat, winter rye, and winter peas lay dormant under the snow waiting to grow in the spring, as do biennials waiting to produce seeds. |
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Post by johninfla on Apr 5, 2012 11:39:10 GMT -5
I usually only plant beets, broccolli, cauliflower, cabbage, and lettuce in my fall garden. Don't forget to plant your garlic, and onions in the late fall for them to be ready in late spring/early summer. I've thought about favas but only tried them once and they failed to germinate.
John
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Post by abculatter2 on Apr 5, 2012 16:28:58 GMT -5
Got a very special package from Joseph today; two clear plastic cornucopias of diversity, in an ark of white Fedex cardboard.  This is awesome, Joseph was REALLY generous with this donation... Seeing the diversity splayed out before me is incredible, I think he just might've sent me almost every seed he has available for trade right now! ;D And of course, he sent plenty of diverse sweet corn, including, and most notably, the Astronomy Domain. Also notably, he sent plenty of vine bean and cucurbit varieties, allowing me to start my garden off with what is likely to be my most favorite companion crop group; The Three Sisters! Which means I can start off with a productive garden, AND build up the soil fertility! Once I'm done with this post, I'll type up a list of everything he sent; unfortunately I can't just take a picture... Anyway, straight to the obligatory wall-of-text... Been thinking about stuff, and I think it would be useful to have a list of winter crops to reference, and where better to do so then right here? For me, that's an easy list: There are no winter crops... However, Egyptian onions are an early spring crop, harvestable about 2 weeks after the winter snow-cover melts. And sunroots will stay overwinter in the ground, dormant, waiting to be dug whenever the ground isn't frozen. Winter wheat, winter rye, and winter peas lay dormant under the snow waiting to grow in the spring, as do biennials waiting to produce seeds. Yeah... Our seasons are rather different from yours. Snow to us is some far-off dream enjoyed by northerners and polar bears, while we shiver in our short, but juuust cold enough to be a nuisance winter. Our growing season is year-round, though summers easily get too hot for most plants, and there are hurricanes and tropical storms to worry about, plus we do get some frost during the winter, making our climate kinda unique. Right now, my plan for the veggie plots is to plant a rotation of groups of various warm-season companion plants, with a permanent, self-seeding winter ground cover, probably clover. This ground cover will, hopefully, and if I get the timing right, spring up right after harvest. Or, more likely, harvest will extend right up to the first frost, winter-killing the warm-season crops, and allowing the clover to spring up again. Also, before the frost, I'll broadcast the winter crops, such as rye and, if it'll grow here, wheat, which will grow with the clover through the winter, and provide an additional crop of grain while keeping the soil alive and active. There are still plenty of kinks and hazy spots I need to clear up, I'm not 100% sure if it'll work right... But I'll work things out as I grow. Oh yeah, of course! How could I forget the leafy greens? And I didn't know garlic and onions were fall crops... I need to do more research on these things, as you can see! And now, TO PLANTING! ... As soon as I'm done with that list. >w> EDIT: Corn:Orange Sweet Painted Mountain (This variety as a nice, deep color, exactly what I'd like...) Diverse Sweet Frosty Sweet Cold Tolerant (Hmmm... Corn in the winter, maybe...?) Paradise Sweet And, of course, Astronomy Domine Beans:Joseph's Dry/Snap Joseph's Shelling Peas Heirloom Dry Pole Kidney (Dunno what to make of this one... Heard they're not good for sprouting, but I'll grow em and see) Cucurbits:Landrace Zucchini Joseph's Moschata Squash Pepo Guards, Small Fruited Joseph's Best Cantelope Maxima, Small Fruited Landrace Cucumber Watermelon, proto-landrace Cmelo all colors all shapes (his handwriting. I think I'm going to like this one...) Nightshades:Tomato, Early Slicers Tomato, Main Season Slicers/Canners Tomato, Joseph's Earliest Sweet Bell Pepper Pepper, Sweet Yellow Landrace True Potato Seed, Ella's Others:Feral Winter Wheat (Highly doubt this one will grow here, but hey, worth a shot...) Spinach (Woo!) Chives Lettuce Sunflower, Tall (Lotsa different kinds of seeds here, I like the promise of diversity...) Turnip, Purple Top White Globe Amish Mustard Radish Spineless Prickly Pear (VERY interested in how this one will turn out...) Sunroot EDIT2: Don't want to spam the forum TOO much with my ramblings, so I'm editing this in. Just poured all the corn seed into one big mason jar, covered them by a few inches of water, and I'm going to let them soak overnight before planting them tomorrow. Once those are about 4 inches in height, the beans and cucurbits will receive the same treatment, and planted in concentric rings around the corn, along with a few tossed into the centers. |
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Post by johninfla on Apr 6, 2012 10:09:10 GMT -5
Joseph, can you tell us more about the spineless prickly pear? Prickley Pear Cactus grows wild here but the pears are tiny and of course they are full of spines and the little tiny hairy needles. In my wife's country they have larger ones but they are still full of needles. They also grow them halfway up the side of a mountain so it is cooler as well as being dryer. Needless to say, I'd love to hear more about it. Abculatter, UF has a LOT of good information here edis.ifas.ufl.edu/vh021 Much of it might not be applicable to you (re: sustainability) but there is a ton of good info that will work for you. John |
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Apr 6, 2012 11:20:28 GMT -5
Joseph, can you tell us more about the spineless prickly pear? Prickley Pear Cactus grows wild here but the pears are tiny and of course they are full of spines and the little tiny hairy needles. In my wife's country they have larger ones but they are still full of needles. They also grow them halfway up the side of a mountain so it is cooler as well as being dryer. Needless to say, I'd love to hear more about it. Spineless if of course a misrepresentation... I am loath to call them spineless, but that's what society has chosen to call them. There are still little hairy spines, just not the huge spines that other prickly pears have... Here's what normal prickly pear look like:  And what the spineless looks like.  Sorry about the winter photo with the pads all shriveled up. Here's what it looks like when flowering:  |
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Post by johninfla on Apr 6, 2012 11:24:58 GMT -5
OH,
yeah it's those little hairy ones that are a pain. How big are the fruits themselves?
john
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Apr 6, 2012 11:36:07 GMT -5
yeah it's those little hairy ones that are a pain. How big are the fruits themselves? 3/4" diameter at the widest part. 1.5" long. Tapered like a raindrop. They don't ripen for me, just get a mucilaginous green goop. What do I know? Maybe that is ripe. |
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Post by wolfcub on Apr 6, 2012 12:04:28 GMT -5
abculatter2 Thanks for the info on One Straw Revelution my friend Rishi who lives in India has just published the Hindi translation of this book. Thanks Marj
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Post by abculatter2 on Apr 7, 2012 22:05:50 GMT -5
Spineless if of course a misrepresentation... I am loath to call them spineless, but that's what society has chosen to call them. There are still little hairy spines, just not the huge spines that other prickly pears have... Awww... So, they're pretty much the prickly pears you find at the store? (Don't know if you guys have them up where you live- probably not, but hey, might as well ask) Still, though, very cool.  Just planted all the prickly pear seeds, btw. They're literally right next to a few wild-growing pricklies, so I KNOW the area's perfect for them. A bit worried about cross-pollination, but that won't be an issue until I have to plant them again, or if I give them away. The most obvious way to solve this is to just pull up the wild plants, but it just feels wrong to do so, so I think I'll just deal with it for now... That is definitely not ripe; Ripe prickly pears are deep red, with a semi-firm, slightly sweet center. They're actually surprisingly good, but can be pretty damn expensive... Of course. And wow, now THAT is cool! Nice to know the knowledge is spreading. EDIT: Oh, and another thing; I had an idea today, kinda a combination of various things coming together in my head... First and foremost, mother revealed to me yesterday that the bloody Homeowner's Association doesn't allow livestock in the neighborhood... Except, of course, their precious little useless effing show horses. >3> I'm probably going to talk to the neighbor I get horse manure from about this, see what she has to say, and see who I'd have to talk to if I want to get some kinda an arrangement going. However, I did come up with a potential way around this, which actually has a lot of other benefits as well... Instead of taking the chore of raising livestock, why not simply cultivate the local wild animal populations, and hunt/trap from them for meat? Although this does unfortunately mean I can't raise eggs or milk myself, there are plenty of good local sources of both, and on top of that, the meat will be of very high quality, will require almost no input from me, (just set out some self-seeding food plots on my acreage and make sure they don't get TOO prolific) and it'll help regulate the local rabbit population. I'd also imagine that having easily-accessible food plots available would also curb their appetites slightly, and at least give them less of a reason to raid my veggie garden... Though, the garden will definitely be the most heavily-trapped location. Of course, I would take care not to take too much out of the local population, and I'd also be giving back by providing good forage. The only problem would be deciding how much is too much... Combine this with my eventual plan to take out our pool, widen the hole a bit, and create an artificial fishing and frogging pond ecosystem, and I think that could easily provide nearly all the animal protein requirements for my family, plus possibly a little to spare... |
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Apr 8, 2012 2:45:07 GMT -5
Just planted all the prickly pear seeds, btw. They're literally right next to a few wild-growing pricklies, so I KNOW the area's perfect for them. A bit worried about cross-pollination, but that won't be an issue until I have to plant them again, or if I give them away. The most obvious way to solve this is to just pull up the wild plants, but it just feels wrong to do so, so I think I'll just deal with it for now... In my garden, the spineless prickly pear blooms a few weeks after the native prickly pear, and the blossoms on each kind only last a day or two so crossing isn't a problem in my garden. But for me it wouldn't be a problem anyway because I like things crossing. |
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Apr 8, 2012 13:04:48 GMT -5
This is awesome, Joseph was REALLY generous with this donation... Seeing the diversity splayed out before me is incredible, I think he just might've sent me almost every seed he has available for trade right now! ;D And many that are not available... I call it an archive copy of my garden... I think I've sent 9 almost complete copies of my garden out into the world this winter. I figure that's a great way to preserve the germplasm, get it into living seed banks. |
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