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Post by cletus on Dec 7, 2012 22:16:08 GMT -5
After watching "Freedom from Famine: the Norman Borlaug Story" on youtube I got a little better idea of Borlaug's contribution as far as breeding. Using wheat genetics from all over the world, he bred rust resistance, short stature, high yielding under high input conditions all together. He breed these characteristics in two different places in Mexico, trucking seed from one to the other in alternating seasons, altitudes, latitudes, etc.--"shuttle breeding."
He thus achieved widely adapted, high yield, disease resistant, water and nutrient guzzling varieties. The basic pattern of short stature (which = high yielding as earlier mentioned), resistant, etc. was copied in other countries with other crops, again using the shuttle breeding methods to get wide adaptability.
Joseph,
If anyone is upset at the new methods of mechanized agriculture, its mainly insofar as it intensifies the negative effects of the forest-field-plow-desert cycle which is as old as annual monocultures. I think there are a variety of ways to do mechanized, broad acre production ecologically, although there are some big challenges for sure. Mark Shephard's new book Restoration Agriculture looks to be a good contribution to this dialogue.
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revi
gopher
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Post by revi on Dec 6, 2014 22:12:55 GMT -5
Problem with Burbank, as previously discussed is that he rarely noted his methods. In contrary, Michurin, gives full details of his method. May be Borlaug hasn't done anything with malicious intention, but at the end of day, his methods are found to be deadly harmful to my country (at least). Some people use guns to kill good people. Other people use guns to kill bad people. The problem is not the guns. The problem is the motivaion of the people who use the guns. If you feed a hungry man junkfood, that means you are harming him with the best of your intentions. |
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Post by cletus on Dec 29, 2014 12:46:41 GMT -5
My problem isn't as much the quality of the food, but that is a significant issue (micronutrient depletion+chemical residues) that also goes along with the erosion of the best agricultural lands. Borlaug style of breeding may have helped intensify chemical monocultures, but he certainly did not invent them. My problem is more that the intensification of these chemical monocultures promotes speculation on food, concentrated land ownership, and is essentially producing a commodity that is more about hoarding and leverage than it is about nutrition and feeding people.
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Post by Marches on Apr 18, 2015 21:01:13 GMT -5
Revi, you asked if any of us used Borlaug or Michurin style breeding techniques. I was trying to explain that for the most part the breeding work most of us do is much less sophisticated due to the constraints of being hobbyists. Instead of trying to demonize Dr. Borlaug and his methods, I think it would be better if you just tried to promote the techniques Michurin used that you feel are better and would have the results you claim. I am not aware of any Michurin varieties. One useful contribution you could make would be to list the varieties and species he worked with and created. Then maybe folks on HG would be able to begin finding sources for them and trialing them. Michurin bred a lot of grapes that formed the basis for breeding work in Eastern Europe. I'm moving a few of them west. |
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revi
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Post by revi on Apr 19, 2015 8:38:12 GMT -5
Michurin bred a lot of grapes that formed the basis for breeding work in Eastern Europe. I'm moving a few of them west. Michruin not only bred grapes, but also other varieties of fruits too like apple, pear and mixed fruits that hasn't been found elsewhere. |
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revi
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Post by revi on Apr 26, 2015 2:21:18 GMT -5
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Aug 18, 2015 19:32:56 GMT -5
If you feed a hungry man junkfood, that means you are harming him with the best of your intentions. Supposing that the man always chooses to eat junk food when he is hungry... Are you really harming him if you feed junk food to him??? I ask because people are constantly giving me food that I think is junk food, or downright poisonous to humans. I used to throw it in the trash, but these days I give it to people that I know are junk food maniacs or that eat foods that I consider poisonous. I figure that they will poison themselves anyway, whether or not I contribute to it. |
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Post by cletus on Aug 18, 2015 20:26:11 GMT -5
That's a fair point, Joseph, but within the context of this thread I think we are mostly talking about the systemic level of the mass subsidizing of poor quality food. There will always be people who make poor decisions, but when the whole system is thrusted in this direction, individual decisions are just a footnote.
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revi
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Post by revi on Aug 22, 2015 0:50:01 GMT -5
If you feed a hungry man junkfood, that means you are harming him with the best of your intentions. Supposing that the man always chooses to eat junk food when he is hungry... Are you really harming him if you feed junk food to him??? I ask because people are constantly giving me food that I think is junk food, or downright poisonous to humans. I used to throw it in the trash, but these days I give it to people that I know are junk food maniacs or that eat foods that I consider poisonous. I figure that they will poison themselves anyway, whether or not I contribute to it. I hope you are aware about the ill affects of junkfood. From your post, it seems that you eat them and offer to others because you have no option. But, have you ever tried to change that condition? If we are aware about the ill effects of something and temporarily found that we have no other option, our first duty is to create options as quick as possible. As for example, we are still relying on fossil fuel, but we have to search for options that are more reliable, sustainable. |
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Aug 23, 2015 0:31:23 GMT -5
Supposing that I am in the desert, and I haven't had anything to drink in 2.5 days. And I come across a pond in a mining district that has a sign on it stating: "Danger: This water contains giardia and mercury. Do not drink..." Is it better to die today than to get diarrhea next week?
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revi
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Post by revi on Aug 23, 2015 20:00:49 GMT -5
If you are without water for 5-6 days, then you will die much early if you drink such water. And the scenario you have described belongs to such people, who are outsiders in desert. Those who live in such conditions, know where to find water and how to use and conserve them. There is no instant solution to such problem.
The ultimate solution is you have to understand how to survive in desert and there is no instant solution to such problem.
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