Grunt's Red Popcorn

[tippler]

Jan 7, 2014 19:11:40 GMT -5 philagardener said:

That description seems to have been posted by Alan Kapuler - a legend in the plant breeding world. His web site is peaceseedslive.blogspot.com/ and his 2014 list says he still can be reached at [e-mail] . Sounds really interesting!

thanx. I'll shoot him an email and see if its still going. Maybe he'll pop in and tell us how its coming along

I'm sure there are plenty of pros/cons, but it might still be worth doing. Predation will surely be an issue in some places. Oddly, it was a much bigger problem for me when I lived in the city. Raccoons/squirrels everywhere. I don't even see them up here. I'm not so sure a squirrel can be stopped regardless, and I'm probably lucky I didn't grow corn down there. I've watched them get at bird feeders. They climb right up the pole, go upsidedown at the U and then down to the feeder. So we put those saucers on the pole blocking them. Next thing we saw were crazy terminator squirrels launching themselves from the closet tree and trying to either land on the feeder, or knock it down. Usually they'd just slam into it hard enough to knock a bunch of seed out to the ground. Once or twice they managed to knock the whole thing down, and at least once broke the feeder in the process. Very crafty buggers who just have no quit in them. Short plants also wont block as much sun from other plants in a small mixed garden. My corn last summer also all started to blow over and I ended up having to put posts in and run rope down the rows, then tie ropes across those to make a grid pattern to keep them upright(my own fault, I think to much water probably made em stretch and go lanky, but I'm not sure about that). That wouldn't be a problem with short stuff. Some other possible downsides are that you probably wouldn't be able to pack the plants in there as thick, and there would probably be less airflow through the patch if you did, raising the chances of disease. Also, if ears develop at too wildly different of speeds, proper pollination could possibly be an issue without some work on the tassels.
I'm a noob with more ambition than experience without question. I've read about people tilling stalks in like that, but I've also read things about using woodchips to keep weeds down. They say, if you till the chips in, as they break down, they temperately suck nitrogen out of the soil until they're composted, basically ruining your spot for a season. That scared me into not doing it because I didn't know if the stalks would have the same effect. Seeing how you (joseph) grow corn, makes it pretty obvious you're having no problems with that. Are the stalks pretty much broke down by next season? I'm sure they break down a lot faster than wood regardless.  I put mine in a compost pile this year until I learn more about that. I also didn't know if it would raise the likelihood of pests/diseases transferring from one season to the next. I still have a lot of learning to do. Its a good thing that once I get into something, I get obsessive about it, and I learn pretty quickly. 
Oh, and the potato thing makes more sense now. tatos got a whole lotta water in them for sure. Interesting stuff. Thanx for the clarification. 

[blueadzuki]

I actually haven't GOTTEN any corn in three YEARS Tippler, because of my squirrel problem (and thier litte satanic brothers, the chipmunks). Usually I didn't even get to see the seed germinate; I'd sow my seed, then come out the next day and fine every last one (or nearly every last one) dug up and sitting on the ground with thier germ chewed out. And anything that did survive that onslaught and actually germinated was relentless mowed down by them as soon as the shoots popped out of the soil; I'd walk out and find piles of green shoots lying on thier sides next to root fragments with nothing left in between. Actually their work is so thourogh that, with the exception of things like alliums they don't like much, any veggie I'm growing from seed, or even putting in in any state smaller than a post seedling plant can only be safely sown in pots placed on top of pedestals on our patio, since they find it hard to climb those with the overhang (and they've started to figure out how to get around that impediment as well). And being suburban, I'm not allowed by local restrictions to shoot, trap, poison or engage in any other terminal method, for fear of injuring local pets/chidren (besides most of the people on the village council think squirrels and chipmunks are "cute" and the more of them there are, the better.) This year, I'm actually planning to put in one of those plastic owls that are used in big fields (and bear in mind my corn patch is only 10x10) and hope THAT keeps them at bay (and that the voles either also fear owls or have moved on.

[dustdevil]

Jan 8, 2014 6:24:49 GMT -5 blueadzuki said:

I actually haven't GOTTEN any corn in three YEARS Tippler, because of my squirrel problem (and thier litte satanic brothers, the chipmunks). Usually I didn't even get to see the seed germinate; I'd sow my seed, then come out the next day and fine every last one (or nearly every last one) dug up and sitting on the ground with thier germ chewed out. And anything that did survive that onslaught and actually germinated was relentless mowed down by them as soon as the shoots popped out of the soil; I'd walk out and find piles of green shoots lying on thier sides next to root fragments with nothing left in between. Actually their work is so thourogh that, with the exception of things like alliums they don't like much, any veggie I'm growing from seed, or even putting in in any state smaller than a post seedling plant can only be safely sown in pots placed on top of pedestals on our patio, since they find it hard to climb those with the overhang (and they've started to figure out how to get around that impediment as well). And being suburban, I'm not allowed by local restrictions to shoot, trap, poison or engage in any other terminal method, for fear of injuring local pets/chidren (besides most of the people on the village council think squirrels and chipmunks are "cute" and the more of them there are, the better.) This year, I'm actually planning to put in one of those plastic owls that are used in big fields (and bear in mind my corn patch is only 10x10) and hope THAT keeps them at bay (and that the voles either also fear owls or have moved on.

Blue, your squirrel problem is very easy to deal with. Put down heavy wire mesh with small squares over your freshly planted seeds. If you pick the right size squares, the plants will grow through them, but the rodents will find it too difficult to dig through the mesh squares.
Use bricks,concrete squares,or pavers to weigh the mesh edges down. Make a wood frame for the mesh if you have too. The mesh covering works wonders protecting flower bulbs as well...just have to remember to remove it once things are growing.
The plastic owl is of little use...eventually animals learn that it's not moving and the problem resumes.
We've had this discussion before and you know you can use a Haveaheart trap to relocate the rodents.Your local DNR will hook you up with a permit.

[blueadzuki]

The problem with the mesh is those squares. anything with small enough spaces to keep the seed safe gets in the way when the plants sprout (and at the size when removing the mesh comes into play the plants are still no where near big enough to stop interesting the squirrels (and when they do get that big, deer tend to wander in and take over.) and the mesh doesn't do anything about the voles, who chew everything up from below. with a bigger mesh screen, there's enough space for the chipmunks to dig between the squares. There was also a "funny" incident where I used a mesh screen to proctect some of my smaller beans.By the time I thought they were big enough to take the screen up, I couldn't; the beans vines had twisted arond the wires and tied the screen to the ground!)
I really was just trying to commiserate with Tippler

[Walk]

During a drought year, I had problems (more than usual) with 13-striped ground squirrels and corn. I had pretty good success with using 6" lengths of recycled, scrap 1.5" PVC pipe. I stood them in a flat and filled with dirt and planted each shallowly with corn. When the corn was up about an inch, I placed each pipe down in the ground, firmed the soil around them, then carefully raised the pipe up about halfway while pushing down on the soil plug. This left a collar around the plant about 3" up and 3" down from where the seed was. Since the ground squirrels normally dig out the seed, this was enough to deter them from most of the plants. For other rodents, some screen or maybe even remay rubberbanded onto the pipe might give enough additional protection until the plant is about 6" tall or so. It's a lot of extra work but is possible for small plantings of 100-200 plants.

[Joseph Lofthouse]

Jan 8, 2014 4:41:57 GMT -5 tippler said:

I've read about people tilling stalks in like [...] Are the stalks pretty much broke down by next season?

I usually get my fall tilling done a day or two before our winter snow cover arrives in November. I start planting a day or two after it melts in March. The corn has not broken down in that time. I end up with fairly big pieces of stalk still laying in the field: Definitely unsuitable for planting small seeded things like carrots, onions, or turnips. Therefore in last year's corn patch I tend to put large seeded things like peas, or I wait and put transplants in like tomatoes or sprawling things like squash, melons, and cucumbers. By the end of the growing season the corn residue is gone.

[tippler]

I heard back from Alan Kapuler already. He said they haven't been working on that chires project in recent years. He said they were talking about continuing, but hes not sure if they'll get to that this year or not.

[oldmobie]

This thread has inspired me to consider a similar project. Rather than hijack this thread, I've started my own.