Seed Hunt report: 2014

[blueadzuki]

philagardener, I just looked up henbane, and it doesn't seem to look much like it. The leaves are too narrow (the wide leaves are actually the other plant in the pot).

[philagardener]

Yes, I agree that the leaves typically are wider and more oak-like, but I had come across this image that looked remarkably similar in some respects to your plant.  (I suppose it also is possible that this particular example is misidentified!)

I was trying to brainstorm an alternative suggestion outside the Solanums.  No idea if your example is an unusual ecotype, a different species within the group, or something totally different.  The things you grow out are intriguing, but probably common weeds in the fields from which the crop seeds were sourced.  Good luck determining its identity!

[flowerweaver]

Looks similar to Solanum villosum. Post a photo of the fruit when you can.

[blueadzuki]

Again, leaves too narrow, too few branches, fruit isn't a berry. Plus as far as I can tell S. villosun flowers are smaller, and white.

Though S. villosum may be the identity of another mystery plant, that "nightshade potato" that showed up in the pot I planted with Tom's seed. At the time, I though S. villosum had fruit that was jet black when ripe; same as most of the other small fruited nightshades. But it appears that red and yellow are just as common, so my bronzy green may be within the range too (there is a pic I found from a site in France that looks eerily like the fruit color of mine). Though I suppose final confirmation of that will have to wait until the day I have space to re-grow that, and that will take quite a bit of space (the packet leaked and the seed got inextricably mixed with that of that little Physalis I was growing.

[blueadzuki]

Aug 26, 2014 10:38:28 GMT -5 flowerweaver said:

Looks similar to Solanum villosum. Post a photo of the fruit when you can.

Fruit pic.

Still not quite ripe, but something's been going to town on the calyx, so it is at least visible. Based on some things I saw this afternoon I suspect starlings. Now I'm a little worried about the actual SEEDS chances, if I am right about what they are they are big and oily inside prime bird food (each of those "sides" is a single seed if I am right in my identity guess; not a seed capsule. )

[flowerweaver]

Interesting--thanks! Am I seeing this correctly--are their four sides to the capsule? What about putting some netting over it so the seeds have a better chance? Maybe something as simple as the mesh onions come in?

[blueadzuki]

Yes there are four. Though as I said, they are probably actually individual seeds so I'm not sure if the whole thing can be called a capsule. Actually now that I think of it that IS unusual; with the flower having clear five part symmetry you'd expect the resultant fruit to ALSO have five, Have to take a closer look to see if there is an undeveloped one hiding in the back.

The main problem with netting is that the fruit is near the bottom of the plant, netting would probably push the rest of it down. Maybe I can rig up some sort of scaffold first to give it some extra room (four chopsticks and some staple should do it).

[blueadzuki]

First seeds harvested (I turned two of them upside down, so you can see the corrugated side)



Turns out that the seeds don't fall out of their own accord you have to flick them.

[blueadzuki]

Dec 4

Hi all

Sorry I haven't updated this thread recently but the simple truth is that, by and large the weekly hunts haven't really yielded all that much worth reporting. There have been a few new odds and ends (like two tiny colored lima beans that may make for interesting growing and some sort of soybean with an interesting green streaked coat) and a minor "find" of bagged rice beans that were the "right type" (which has since apparently dried up, though I suspect I may find a few more bags come January, when I being hunting Flushing again (which has two branches of the market chain I found the "right" bags in. But by and large it's been pretty tedious.

In fact, the reason I am starting it up again now has little to do with any finds. Yesterdays yield was minimal (I found one speckled rice bean (only notable because this is the long season stuff, so speckles are rather rare, and getting rarer) It's just I may have finally gotten a lead on the identity of those "drum" peas I keep mentioning (the little mottled ones with the cylinder shapes, from back when I started) While trolling around the net (note I mean trolling in the sense of "casting one's net in the (digital) ocean, not as in "making hateful comments") I found a reference to an Indian pules called kala vanata (literally, black peas) a small pea popular in Gujarat. Information on them is sketchy (that is there is copious info on how to cook them, but not a lot on what they actually are. But I did find a few photos, and what I see looks a lot like my "drum peas" At least MOST of them do; there seem to be a few photos which actually look more like my "lentil vetch" (without a reliable item for scale reference it's hard to determine size. The thing in the photo is either a bowl (in which case, they are in drum size or a spoon (in which case they are the vetch's size) In slight favor of the vetch guess is the fact that one site mentions that, if kala vanata is unavailable in your area, puy lentils are supposed to make an good substitute.

I suppose that identity could also go a long way to explain how so much of the stuff could get in without complaint. Out and out week contamination at that level would cause even liberally minded inspectors to blanch; but if the contaminant is something that is recognized as also safe to eat and used in more or less the same way......then I don't know, maybe they are instructed to be more forgiving.

[blueadzuki]

Sub note.

After looking a bit closer I'm not AS sure that these are my peas. Looking at a few other pictures, these peas look larger than what I am thinking of. In fact kala vanata may be more along the lines of simply an Indian pea strain that is similar to Carlin; Latvian or another often marmorated type.

[Joseph Lofthouse]

blueadzuki: What is there? Something like 100 million tons of food imported yearly into the usa? Almost all of it comes in without any sort of inspection at all... The USDA is too preoccupied harassing people about swapping a packet of seeds from overseas. Sheesh!!!

[steev]

Take care of the mice, the elephants will take (very good) care of themselves.

[blueadzuki]

Dec 4, 2014 13:44:23 GMT -5 Joseph Lofthouse said:

blueadzuki: What is there? Something like 100 million tons of food imported yearly into the usa? Almost all of it comes in without any sort of inspection at all... The USDA is too preoccupied harassing people about swapping a packet of seeds from overseas. Sheesh!!!

After the incident with the rosary pea in the senna, I'm inclined to agree (for something like that to slip through in a product designed to be consumed has to require
a pretty serious lapse in USDA oversight. Like all government institutions the USDA has it's cracks, and it is in those cracks my collections are made.

The part that always depresses me is the knowledge that at some point those kind of cracks do wind up getting sealed one way or another. I firmly believe that what little freedom and legal wiggle room we have does not exist because there are people up above who still believe in the value of personal freedom and responsibility, but simply because they have not figured out a way to enforce more draconian measures in a manner that would not result in more actual work for them. I have little doubt in my heart that, the moment some way is found to move tasks like this over to something more automated, say the day they make some sort of robot/nanite that is capable of actually looking over every ounce of everything imported or exported without slowing down the processing or upping the cost in any significant manner, is the day when all the cracks will seal up at once, and hunting will become pointless (it's sort of like my belief that the moment the IRS gets there hands on computers that can do it and the findings of those computers are accepted by courts as inalienable gospel, the tax codes will be changed so that EVRYONE is fully audited EVERY year.

Though given things like the Minnesota shenanigans noted recently, the ACTUAL solution that will come will probably be more along the lines of banning people from using any "non approved" (i.e. non major commercial) seed source (if not simply banning anyone but agribusiness from growing anything) and mandating that any foodstuffs imported must be irradiated or otherwise treated to make sure they are sterile (in both the planting and bacteriological senses) and pass zero tolerance standards of absolute purity (on the grounds that at least on the surface, the laws would have to appear to be for personal safety. If they really want to consolidate the food supply in the hands of big business, they have to at least APPEAR to make it look like this is a good idea.)

Getting off the soapbox and back to the peas, it looks like what kind depends on who was doing the picture. The ones in this pic are almost assuredly full size (based on the other pictures on the site)

These on the other hand ARE probably like my "drum peas" since there is that kidney bean for size comparison


And, as I said THESE could actually be as small as my vetch ( STILL can't tell if that vessel is a bowl or a spoon) Adding to the confusion is that I have vague memories that, back when I COULD get the drum peas out of lentils, there were also peas in some of the coriander of that packer that actually WERE the size of vetch seed (you had to look at the hilum to recognize them as peas)

[steev]

I'm leaning "spoon".

[blueadzuki]

In that case the "black peas" contain some things that are probably not, strictly speaking, peas. Pity the resolution in the picture isn't good enough to see any of the hila clearly; that would REALLY help in figuring out if they were peas.

I suppose final answers will come in the spring when I open the pint bottle I filled with the things, toss some in the ground, hope that a few make it past the critters (one advantage I have, with a full bottle, I'll at least have a HECK of a lot of backup if it doesn't to try again) and then see if my observational talents will let me tell a vetch plant from a lentil plant from a pea plant (sounds easy, but I imagine that, if they ARE peas their plants will be on the gracile and thready side.)