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Post by robertb on Feb 16, 2014 13:08:55 GMT -5
Good ideas about overwintering brassicas. Joseph, do you bury them completely and leave them all winter, or am I misunderstanding? I tried some Portuguese couve tronchuda one year; it was good stuff but it didn't survive the winter, so I didn't get seed.
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Feb 16, 2014 14:35:58 GMT -5
Good ideas about overwintering brassicas. Joseph, do you bury them completely and leave them all winter, or am I misunderstanding? Yes, I bury things completely in about mid-October. Then dig them for replanting in about March or April. With this method I have overwintered turnips, radishes, beets, Swiss chard, teosinte, carrots, potatoes, cabbage, etc. |
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Post by trixtrax on Feb 16, 2014 15:32:01 GMT -5
I like this new interrelationship diagram oxbowfarm sent me shown above. I have worked on a sketchy form similar to the above, but including many more species, like Orychophragmus violaceus, Sinapis arvensis (Brassica kaber), Brassica balearica, Garlic Mustard (Alliaria petiolata), Crambe spp, Hirschfeldia incana (often perennial), Brassica rapa sylvestris (perennial), Brassica fruticulosa, Diplotaxis erucoides, Diplotaxis tenuifolia, etc. I conjecture that Brassica "Triangle of U" evolution happened when something Brassica nigra like crossed to something similar to form Brassica rapa and separately something similar to these crossed with Brassica rapa to form Brassica oleracea. Remanents of this evolution seem to include some Diplotaxis, some Crambe spp., Raphanus, and Orychophragmus. Due to the strong compatibility between Brassica rapa and Brassica oleracea, it is likely the two species continued to diverge in a new trajectory, occasionally crossing with each other. Brassicas are strange in that they cross so widely and that chromosome numbers don't seem to matter as much, also they rarely form polyploids and usually stay diploid.
An example, Brassica oleracea x Brassica rapa, would form a White Russian Brassica napus. If that Brassica napus was backcrossed to Brassica oleracea, after several generations, the population would mostly again assume a Brassica oleracea phenotype and would generally have compatibility with Brassica oleracea as if nothing was different. Tim Peters did a lot of experiments toward this end. Another example, the colorful ornamental cabbages you may see in pots in your town square, as I understand it, are derived from crosses between colorful Brassica juncea and Brassica oleracea, but retain their compatibility with Brassica oleracea.
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Post by blackox on Feb 16, 2014 16:00:47 GMT -5
Teosinte, Joseph? What kind of climate are you in? I thought that was a crop for warmer climates.
Finches and sparrow are a big problem here when it comes to grain. Luckily most of what I grow is amaranth, so there is usually enough left for me. Hopefully they'll be distracted enough as not to go for the brassica seeds.
I've been at a farmer's convention for the past two days and met a produce farmers from the Columbus area, he sells to a few high-end restaurants. Kale is his biggest seller and he has to go to (either Italy or...France?) to get his seeds because he can't find a good source for them. Seems like a sign from the holy vegi gods from up above...
also met a nearby manufacturer of low and high tunnels.
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Feb 16, 2014 16:12:15 GMT -5
Teosinte, Joseph? What kind of climate are you in? I thought that was a crop for warmer climates. I've been growing Zea diploperennis in USDA zone 4b. It is a perennial teosinte with rhizomes. So far it has not produced seeds for me. It is not winter hardy in my fields so I bury it deep enough to avoid frost. I hear that there are cultivars of this species that produce seeds in long-day conditions, but I haven't found one yet. |
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Post by trixtrax on Feb 16, 2014 16:38:24 GMT -5
blackox, what types of kale does he grow that he cannot find?
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Post by blackox on Feb 18, 2014 19:11:18 GMT -5
So the problem with teosinte isn't the temperature, it's the daylength. I thought that teosinte was more of a crop for warmer climates.
Trixtrax, I think that he was referring to kale seed in general. It just goes to show that there might be a fairly good market for kale, seed and leaf, pretty close to where I'm at. I was going to ask him what type/s of kale he grows and maybe refer him to possible suppliers, but by then it was time to go to the next conference. I do wonder why he has to ship seed in from across the Atlantic.
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Post by steev on Feb 18, 2014 19:55:09 GMT -5
The word from the Foodie SF Bay Area is that kale is SO last-year; this year's uber-hyped veggie is kohlrabi.
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Post by ottawagardener on Feb 19, 2014 10:07:38 GMT -5
Things I love about this thread: That chart on crossing species AND that technique for getting roll seeds to the spot you want. I use the 'grape crunch' method where I get my kids to do the shuffle over them. Ideally then screen and thresh but I think I'm going for the rolling sheet method. Excellent.
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Post by ottawagardener on Feb 19, 2014 10:07:55 GMT -5
P.S. I have not had any obvious cross-species crosses in brassicas.
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Post by oxbowfarm on Feb 20, 2014 10:52:30 GMT -5
I've often though it would be nice to make a small, homestead "gravity table" for stuff like brassica seed. Some kind of a flat surface with a raised rim and an open end. Maybe glue some smooth rubber type surface for additional friction? Then play around with various tilt angles and vibration methods? Just an idea.
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Post by 12540dumont on Feb 20, 2014 15:32:19 GMT -5
maybe you can find a "magic" fingers vibrator from an motel room.
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Post by blackox on Feb 20, 2014 15:55:18 GMT -5
I've often though it would be nice to make a small, homestead "gravity table" for stuff like brassica seed. Some kind of a flat surface with a raised rim and an open end. Maybe glue some smooth rubber type surface for additional friction? Then play around with various tilt angles and vibration methods? Just an idea. Kind of like one of those vibrating gold mining tables that they use to separate the gold from the sand? |
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Post by oxbowfarm on Feb 20, 2014 17:08:31 GMT -5
Maybe? I was meaning a low-tech version of this. |
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Post by ferdzy on Jul 9, 2015 12:42:15 GMT -5
So I got a Brussels sprouts / kale cross from Cesar a while back, and last year's plants survived the winter and are now forming seeds. The problem is that they are in a bed which is now supposed to be squash and cukes. In fact, I have planted the squash and cukes, and would like to get the BS/kale out as soon as possible in order to give them proper space to develop.
My question, then, is how mature do seed pods need to be in order to be usefully ripe? Can I cut them and finish them in a tub of water? Or...?
Presently, the seed pods look full sized, but still quite green.
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