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Post by blueadzuki on Jan 6, 2015 8:51:46 GMT -5
So esoteric, blue; I love it. The neurons fire and one never knows where the shots will hit; always an adventure! That's me poster child for DENSA (Diversely Educated, Not Seriously Affected [yes there is actually a club called this]) Though I notice I made a big error in my second bit. The ojime locks the inro closed, not the netsuke (it works sort of like the slide on a bolo tie). The netsuke is on the other side of the cord, and is there to provide something to keep the inro's cord from sliding out from under your obi (sash). |
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Post by blueadzuki on Jan 6, 2015 8:53:24 GMT -5
I have to assume that, unless red flesh shows up spontaneously from time to time, that there is blood orange DNA SOMEWHERE in the ancestry of the pink fleshed citrus, like the ruby grapefruit, the Cara Cara orange, the variegated lemon and possibly the mango orange (though that is really pink pithed, not pink fleshed. Grapefruit with increased red pigment were found routinely as bud mutations: www.texasweet.com/texas-grapefruits-and-oranges/texas-grapefruit-history/Actually I guess that's how blood oranges originated as well; someone finding an orange with elevated red pigment, and selecting for more and more elevated. |
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Post by imgrimmer on Jan 16, 2015 9:20:25 GMT -5
For those who are interested in Citrus, there is pretty good forum for it called Citrus Growers ForumThere are many enthusiasts and maybe a chance to get seeds/cuttings of Yuzu or something else. As far as I know Yuzu is not true to type when grown by seed but still a Yuzu. It is a supposed cross of Citrus ichangensis and C. reticulata (Mandarin) but won`t segregate to the parent species. I will find out. I have around 200 seeds for a trial this year. |
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Post by imgrimmer on Jan 16, 2015 11:18:30 GMT -5
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Post by imgrimmer on Jan 16, 2015 11:42:11 GMT -5
here is an article about Ichang Papeda, Yuzu and other Papeda related varieties also an article about cold hardier citrus cultivars in Texas here is something about the Yuko, another rare japanese Yuzu cousin, also cold hardy to certain degrees and highly appreciate in the haut cuisine in Japan |
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Post by blueadzuki on Jan 16, 2015 14:59:04 GMT -5
Hmm interesting. It's beginning to sound more and more like the reason I can't find yuzus that meet my needs is that those have ALWAYS been abnormal for the type, if indeed they were actually yuzus. Maybe the "old ones" I am hunting were actually Yukos or some sort of cross (though since all of the crosses they are mentioning would seem to encourage fruit bigger than a pure yuzu, and what I am looking for is a lot smaller I suspect that, if it is a cross, it's not one of the ones listed in the second article*) and were marked as yuzu's more for convenience than accuracy.
*though actually they still could be a yuzu x mandarin cross, if the mandarin in question was the old minkan one, the very sweet, but very tiny one still popular in Japan, but now usually passed over for bigger types, at least for the fresh fruit market (it's still used for the process market though; if you have ever seen canned mandarin orange wedges, they are probably minkan (going wholly by segment size)
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Post by imgrimmer on Jan 16, 2015 16:21:05 GMT -5
most of the Yuzus here in Europe are juicy and have seeds. there is a special variety called Tadanishiki very juicy and seedless. Here is a link to it, it is french but Google Translator can help  Most of the Yuzus are like this, with seeds. I never heard of Yuzus without juice, but I am not an expert. Do you have a link or picture of it? I`ve seen Ichang Papeda fruits without juice, maybe this trait is still in the Yuzu genome. There is a juiceless variety of Ichang Papeda here in Europe, mother to a juicy variety (or maybe offspring of it, can`t remember exactly) so this trait is not dominant inherited. I found a japanese Genebank for Citrus there you can search for different Yuzu varieties, with some description of the varieties. |
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Post by blueadzuki on Jan 16, 2015 17:36:25 GMT -5
Lucky you. We probably have different strains in the US.
No I don't have a picture or link to hand. I suppose that theoretically, I could buy a bad yuzu cut in in half and take a picture, but since yuzus are pretty expensive around here, and a bad one is almost useless to me (I can make the peel into extract, but I already have so much Yuzu extract I'm probably good for the rest of my life.) I'm not exactly inclined to.
The juiceless ones look sort of like the cut in half one in the picture in the second link you posted, exept the fruit section are even more collapsed and the seeds more numerous (six or seven per fruit segment).
I was referencing the article you posted on the crosses, which says that juicelessness is in fact common for yuzus (though about 1/4 won't have it)
The ones in the pictures in your articles are similar to the current kind here, though ours tend to be quite a bit bumpier.
There's no scale in any of the pictures (except inferences from the size of the plate) but I suspect all of those are a lot bigger than what I am looking for. that one is about the size of a key lime (though an oblate sphere like a mandarin) In fact I suspect that is why I haven't seen any this year, with all the stores pricing yuzu by the fruit not the ounce the bigger ones are perceived as a better bargain (especially since the only old trees last year seemed to be the organic ones, which tacks another $1 per fruit on)
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Post by imgrimmer on Jan 17, 2015 7:44:47 GMT -5
here is a picture of two fruits of C.ichangensis I got this year, these are from 2 different plants. the one on the right is completly juiceless just dry as the desert. The left one has little seeds and a taste like a citron. Are the dry Yuzus like the right one?   |
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Post by blueadzuki on Jan 17, 2015 8:45:15 GMT -5
More or less
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Post by Al on Jan 20, 2015 9:07:13 GMT -5
Imgrimmer. Thanks for posting the list of European yuzu suppliers. Citrus Bali in the Netherlands can send plants to me here in the U.K. I am not sure if his are good eating. A non-commercial enthusiast might give me one; www.homecitrusgrowers.co.uk but he reports that his "hana yuzu" produced fruit that is inedibly sour. This may be some ornamental hybrid not the true yuzu? He acquired it in France, (Citron ichangensis X Citron  perhaps), I think I am after C.ichangensis x C.reticulata. That seedless yuzu tandanishiki looks superb, I do not really mind if I end up with fruit that gives me juice or if I just have thick rind & zest, but inedibly sour would be a disappointment even if it does look pretty. Both potential suppliers offer plants grafted onto Poncirus trifoliate, presumably for cold hardiness. My plan is to keep the yuzu in an air-pot container & overwinter it under glass so perhaps it does not need grafting but could grow on its own roots. The quest continues. |
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Post by imgrimmer on Jan 20, 2015 10:02:49 GMT -5
Al Adavo will send to the UK as well, he is much cheaper At ADAVO you can ask for Citrus unshiu x junos it is a Yuzu hybrid, I don`t know this one, but Yuzu hybrids are sometimes with sweet fruits. The Hana Yuzu is a kind of Yuzu, as far as I know also from Japan called Hanayu there. There are also Sudachi and Kabosu 2 other japanese varieties with some cold hardiness. You could test the C.ichangensis IVIA, on the picture on the left side it has very little juice, but it tastes like a real citron. It is the most sensitive Ichang Papeda but it should be hardy to -10°C. N1tri is another edible (citronlike) hybrid, claimed to be hardy at least to -12°C. I guess a rainy winter could be more a problem for you.
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Post by Al on Jan 20, 2015 15:56:11 GMT -5
Adavo has a huge range of citrus hopefully I can get a Yuzu from him, & he has a lot of other plants such as sea buckthorn. There are huge expanses of sea buckthorn growing wild on the sand dunes just a few miles along the coast from Edinburgh, I never realised there are such colourful & attractive forms of this plant. Actually here on the east coast it is not very wet or cold most of the time, the west coast is much wetter. Only when the wind blows from the east do we really suffer, on a cold day here folk talk about it feeling "Baltic"! I think even fairly hardy citrus can struggle here outside because of the long cool damp, dark winters, with occasional cold snaps. That is why I intend to grow in an Air-pot; good drainage & healthy roots, & a container grown plant can be given protection under glass during the winter. Thanks Imgrimmer.
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perhaps), I think I am after C.ichangensis x C.reticulata. That seedless yuzu tandanishiki looks superb, I do not really mind if I end up with fruit that gives me juice or if I just have thick rind & zest, but inedibly sour would be a disappointment even if it does look pretty.