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Post by oxbowfarm on Apr 2, 2014 6:43:04 GMT -5
Here's a link to one of the original papers about Coroico and its unusual aleurone. It also discusses a bunch of techniques for sampling and microscopy of corn kernels, have you got a microscope oldmobie? For your purposes you wouldn't need to do all the staining, but if all you had were shelled kernels, doing some looking at sections of the pericarp and aleurone layers under a scope would tell you if you were dealing with colored pericarp or aleurone.
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Post by oldmobie on Apr 2, 2014 10:07:31 GMT -5
No, I don't. Thank you for the link, though! Too bad I don't have easy microscope access, looks as though it would turn my vague understanding into definite answers.Wow, this has gotten very involved! I guess that's why you don't see red white and blue ears (yet). I'm learning a lot, I want to thank everyone for your time spent tutoring me! I still intend to try this, but don't want to disapoint anyone due to a bad return on your investment of time. For anyone who hasn't picked up on it yet, my relevant knowledge prior to this thread extended as far as punnett squares. I read somewhere about aleurone only being one cell thick, but forgot before I started cutting. Never thought of the leaching thing. If you guys don't mind that I'm in over my head, then keep it coming. |
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Post by oxbowfarm on Apr 4, 2014 7:14:09 GMT -5
I was reading some old SSE yearbooks. In the 2004 yearbook a guy in Ohio was listing several different strains he had selected out of Shawnee flour corn. One of them he was calling Shawnee Red,White, and Blue. Unfortunately he no longer lists on the SSE and no one else lists his varieties. But you might see about getting hold of some Shawnee, although it is a flour corn so you'd have some generations of selection/backcrossing to get a good popping corn back.
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Post by templeton on Apr 4, 2014 21:49:08 GMT -5
re microscopes: there are some relatively cheap USB scopes available on line. Way cheaper than a big traditional dissecting scope.
All this patriotic discussion has got me wondering about an Aussie green and gold corn - except I expect it might look rather unappetising.
And no, I'm definitely NOT contemplating such a project.
T
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Post by raymondo on Apr 5, 2014 4:40:07 GMT -5
re microscopes: there are some relatively cheap USB scopes available on line. Way cheaper than a big traditional dissecting scope. All this patriotic discussion has got me wondering about an Aussie green and gold corn - except I expect it might look rather unappetising. And no, I'm definitely NOT contemplating such a project. T For the green and gold, I'd stick to Grub's Mystery Green tomato - Aussie born and bred and the green and gold appear together - easy as! |
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Post by oldmobie on Apr 17, 2014 19:53:07 GMT -5
Yes, you could select for corn that was red white and blue presuming you start with those colors. But when red and blue are on the same kernel, it will look dark, almost black. You would have to have a white corn with special genetic background. I suggest getting seed of Pennsylvania Butter Flavored white popcorn to start with. It has the traits you would need. I just got some in a Garden Web trade. So I have a few approaches in mind, and I wonder which you guys think is best: 1) Plant a row of my blue popcorn, then a row of the Pennsylvania Butter Flavored, then a row of whatever red kernels I can scrape up. Leave all the tassels intact. 2) Same planting, detassle the PBF. 3) Same planting, detassle some percentage of the PBF. I assume that if I detassle anything, it should be the PBF, if I'm looking for that clear pericarp, and that's maternal. |
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Apr 19, 2014 1:34:30 GMT -5
I'd do some variation on this theme... 2) Same planting, detassle the PBF. A few rows with red aleurones all together in a patch. A few rows of detasseled white popcorn all together in a patch A few rows of blue popcorn all together in a patch. With the patches side by side and the white in-between the red/blue. |
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Post by oldmobie on Jul 9, 2014 7:48:59 GMT -5
*This post is a duplicate of most of a post from my "doings" thread. It seemed appropriate to have it here, too, as it refers to this project.* Ended up planting 7 short rows: tiny blue popcorn (2 rows) on the west, Pennsylvania Butter Flavored (white, 3 rows) in the middle, whatever red corn kernels I could find (2 rows) on the east. I doubt that I have exactly the right red genetics here. I didn't have any red popcorn, and couldn't source it locally. So I sorted out seeds that looked red from Indian corn, dent corn and Astronomy Domine. I have no idea which ones have red aleurone, or which have red pericarp. Plus I guess the red seeded crosses won't be popcorn, so that'll mean back-crossing. But it was time to move forward. I suppose that I'll keep anything that has any combination of the desired colors on one cob. Anything else will get popped, boiled or fed to the critters.  |
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Oct 25, 2014 0:12:34 GMT -5
I finished harvesting the popcorn today. I planted about 1300 plants. Among all that diversity I found the following:   |
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Post by oldmobie on Oct 25, 2014 23:06:37 GMT -5
You've done it! I may still try it here, but mainly I'll just try to breed large, tasty, colorful, well-popping popcorn. It'll have mainly red, white, blue and yellow in the beginning, as those are the popcorns I have to start with. (I now have red popcorn. Just got strawberry popcorn in a trade.)
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Post by kevin8715 on Oct 26, 2014 0:49:06 GMT -5
I finished harvesting the popcorn today. I planted about 1300 plants. Among all that diversity I found the following: Did you get any F1 seed with the high carotene corn? |
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Oct 26, 2014 1:22:15 GMT -5
Did you get any F1 seed with the high carotene corn? There were lots of clever crosses. I hope to post details and photos in a month or two. By then I may have the fall chores completed, and the corn may be dry enough to test pop. I hosed my camera earlier today, or I would have posted a teaser just now... I got some F1 seed last year, and back crossed it to my popcorn this year. So the cobs are 75% my popcorn and 25% high carotene corn. They are very pretty. (A bit hard to work with though, because I could only identify the F1 crossed seed because it had red aleurone, which interferes with selection of the F2 this year.) Also, due to losing one of the "detassel-this-row" markers last year some of the high carotene pollen made it into the general popcorn patch. I'm finding a few high carotene kernels in the general popcorn patch this fall. (And a few flour corn kernels.) Too much work required too quickly while harvesting to give every cob the scrutiny that it deserves. I also made a proper F1 cross this year inside the white popcorn patch: [High carotene X white popcorn] That aughta simplify selection to not have so many other colors running around. Additionally I made crosses between the South American corns (including the high carotene) and Astronomy Domine sweet corn. The flowering times coincided well, so there is plenty of seed. There are other crosses and segregating populations to write about. |
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Post by oldmobie on Sept 17, 2015 18:42:11 GMT -5
 Here's this year's popcorn crop. I think selection is starting to pay off. I've grown the blue corn before. The seeds I planted this year were saved in two lots: largest ears and least bug damage. (I grew all my ornamentals together that year. The three large ears grew from the same seeds as the blue. I guess that it's crossed to an indian corn.) I think there was some crossing this season. (I didn't finish detassling, I barely started.) Lots of the blue ears have white kernels. One of the white ears has a purplish kernel. I'm thinking of segregating the off-color kernels to plant as potential crosses. |
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Post by oldmobie on Sept 18, 2015 22:01:09 GMT -5
Did a few test pops today. Horrible. I've got a hunch it's the moisture, but can't check properly, as I haven't got a scale that would work. After re-reading Joseph Lofthouse's popcorn thread, I did some bite testing. Most of them bit through without breaking, and had a chewy center. I'll have to dry 'em down and pop again. Duh. |
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