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Post by maicerochico on Apr 28, 2014 21:34:17 GMT -5
I'm interested in starting a project this summer to breed an earlier version of the Seminole squash so that I can have all the variety's excellent agronomic and culinary qualities without its late maturity. In typical years where I live, Seminole vines grow to huge sizes, resist pests, disease, and heat, and outcompete weeds, but the plants bloom a full month later than the standard Waltham Butternut (the last of July vs. the last of June) and consequently do not mature as many fruits.
I figured that I would cross the two together and select for Seminole's usual traits with Butternut's precociousness. I want to use Metro PMR butternut instead of Waltham so that I do not introduce mildew susceptibility along with the earliness. As a bonus, Seminole's mildew resistance is controlled by different genes than Metro PMR (Seminole's resistance is recessive, while Metro's is dominant), so I can "stack" genes for a durable, polygenic base.
I have had one major concern about using Metro PMR, however: possible male sterility. Given that Metro is an F1 hybrid, I can't help but wonder if the producers use that trait to make seed production easier. Does anybody know if male sterility is employed in hybrid moschata production? If so, I will have to fall back on Waltham butternut, as much as I would prefer not to.
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Post by 12540dumont on Apr 29, 2014 0:36:20 GMT -5
Let me know how you do. Seminole has never fruited on my farm. Oxbow and Joseph both have great Butternuts that I know are not CMS. They are both close as to the length of time to harvest. Neither had mildew at my farm.
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Apr 29, 2014 2:07:58 GMT -5
I can't grow Seminole squash in my garden because it is too long season. I also can't reliably grow Waltham because it is typically too long season.
A year ago someone sent me squash seed that was [Seminole X Waltham]. Someone else sent [Seminole X Joseph's Moschata]. I think I still have leftover F1 seed from the [Seminole X Waltham]. I grew the two crosses isolated from my other moschata squash. Some of them were still too long season and were eliminated. [It was a longer than average growing season, but they were grown in my coldest field.) Some of the seeds got added into my general population, though I may have kept some of the F2 seed separate. PM your mailing address if you want me to look for it and share a sample if found.
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Post by maicerochico on Apr 30, 2014 13:27:17 GMT -5
Well, I did some digging around, and (currently) squash hybrids do not use CMS, so I can breed with disease resistant commercial F1's as earliness donors without any worry except lack of breeding true to type (which I don't care about anyways). I said earlier that I would like to use Metro PMR, but I think "Tiana" from High Mowing Seeds might be a better choice since it possesses acceptable tolerance to Zucchini Yellow Mosaic Virus along with good powdery mildew resistance.
Eventually, once I get the Seminole project done, I want to cross it with a bunch of relatively long-day tolerant moschatas from Latin America to introduce diversity. The resulting population will balance agronomic + culinary quality and diversity, with both at 50% each.
Along with the project above, I am also wanting to start one for breeding a disease resistant C. maxima pool. I found two purportedly powdery mildew resistant kabocha F1's from Johnny's Seeds that I think will nicely compliment "Bylinka" from Baker Creek, which is an OP with good resistance to PM as well as anthracnose (a rather difficult disease to breed against in squash). I'd like to then breed the disease resistance donors to several heirlooms for more diversity. GRIN has some interesting types to add in.
I'd like to hear people's thoughts on this idea.
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Post by oxbowfarm on Apr 30, 2014 14:20:53 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure there isn't any CMS for squash. My understanding is that they use a sterilizing chemical sprayed on the female parent rows.
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Post by 12540dumont on Apr 30, 2014 18:17:22 GMT -5
Let me know when you get the part where you breed to prevent squash bugs from finding my precious babies.
I found 8 squash bugs in the green house today. I haven't even set the squash out yet! Gad zukes.
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Post by steev on Apr 30, 2014 22:11:13 GMT -5
I am, thankfully, so ignorant that I don't know a squash bug from my elbow; well, no, my elbow is right there; I suppose I don't know a squash bug from my ass, not being able to see it, although I suspect it's particularly handsome, in an aged masculine sort of way.
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Apr 30, 2014 23:19:20 GMT -5
How's your powdery mildew weather? I can't screen for powdery mildew resistance in my climate because it is too dry. I suppose that to measure the resistance of your crops that it might be prudent to grow a susceptible strain, because if your squash doesn't succumb to powdery mildew, it's hard to tell if it didn't succumb because it wasn't exposed or because it resisted the exposure.
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Post by steev on May 1, 2014 0:05:50 GMT -5
In the East Bay, powdery mildew is just how it is (I had a rose I called "Blood in Snow", for that reason); on the farm, no such.
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Post by maicerochico on May 1, 2014 12:59:20 GMT -5
Joseph,
I get powdery mildew just about every year on my squash, so selecting for resistance won't be difficult. In 2011, I planted both Seminole and Waltham Butternut, and the latter turned white from the fungus, while the former hardly had a speck. Anthracnose and downy mildew have been problematic each year as well. I'll have plenty of chances to screen different varieties.
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Post by 12540dumont on May 1, 2014 13:16:53 GMT -5
Steev, I had that rose, it succumbed to an axe and was promptly replaced with a David Austin rose that never gets mildew or black spot. Off with their heads! Maic, keep it up!
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Post by nathanp on May 1, 2014 22:01:55 GMT -5
Powdery Mildew is endemic in my location. On my lilacs, on my squashes, on my melons, on my grapes, cucumbers, etc. No idea if it is the same thing on everything. This is a potential project I haven't thought much about, but if there are resistant plants out there, it's probably worth trying to bring those genes into a landrace.
I have yet to find much resistance, other than fast growing vines that outpace the powdery mildew.
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Post by steev on May 1, 2014 22:21:35 GMT -5
Baking soda spray can help to get out of the powdery mildew comfort zone.
The SF Bay Area is powdery mildew ground zero, also for rust and black smut. I've never had any trouble with those on the farm, but it's so dry, there. If there was a place that's just perfect for every use, I'm sure somebody has screwed it up by now. Oh, wait! I think that was Eden; yep: screwed up.
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Post by littleminnie on May 2, 2014 21:31:56 GMT -5
A couple years ago I grew Seminole here in MN and had ripe fruits. I can offer some seeds I saved from them mixed with butternuts.
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Post by oxbowfarm on May 4, 2014 8:56:05 GMT -5
Powdery mildew is endemic everywhere I've ever grown squash. All squash get it by early September in my experience. Moschata's seem best at growing away from it in this area, Maximas the worst.
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