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Post by raymondo on Jun 7, 2014 16:57:38 GMT -5
...I can always use a better orange tomato. Most are so insipid. You go! Orange tomatoes I've liked: Caro Rich, Earl of Edgecombe, Jaune Flammée, Katinka Cherry, KBX, Kellog's Breakfast, Tangella. I wouldn't call any of those insipid, though they are, perhaps, not all to everyone's taste. For example, most people find the sharp flavour of Jaune Flammée too much but I love it and many people love Sun Gold but I find it unpleasantly sugary. |
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Post by DarJones on Jun 7, 2014 20:15:26 GMT -5
I too don't like Sungold, but it is the smell that is repulsive to me.
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Post by 12540dumont on Jun 10, 2014 14:35:52 GMT -5
I have never liked Sungold. I'm dismayed that it's a favorite among those I cater to. I'd rather eat Black Cherry any day. I guess that's why I like Lieven's Teardrop. It's a cross between a Sungold/Black Cherry/? Prolific like a Sungold, but ohh so much better tasting.
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Post by imgrimmer on Jun 16, 2014 15:24:31 GMT -5
Today I found out that at least one strain of my own varieties has open flowers with exposed stigmas. These are direct sown on first of may and are already blooming, there are other strains (sown inside in pots and then planted out) starting to bloom in the next days. I am really excited if there are more...
I will plant some jagodka and nevskij red next to them.
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Jul 1, 2014 0:19:05 GMT -5
I used to think that I had seed for LA3969... But looking at the plants today it seems like about half of them are off-type... There were round fruits and fruits with nipples (don't know where that gene came from Wheatley's perhaps), and some plants are blooming prolifically and others haven't started yet, and there were differences in leaf shape and size. The ones with fruit already are much more precocious than last year. Last summer when I was evaluating flowers I wrote "LA 3969: Base of anther cone very open as if to expose nectary." Yippee!!! Looks like that open anther cone could make a great addition to a project to develop promiscuously pollinating tomatoes. It got dark before I could thoroughly examine the flowers, but a quick look showed that the plants that I suspect of being hybrids do not have as open an anther cone as the ones I think are not crossed, but more open than the general population. I'll be too tired tomorrow to follow-up, so maybe later. That got me to thinking if pollen transfer in some cases might be a one-way deal. For example, Nevskiy Red sheds pollen readily, but perhaps it's difficult for outside pollen to get to the stigma. Perhaps LA3969 accepts pollen readily because the anther cone is so loose and open. But it didn't release much pollen so the bees weren't all that interested in it. |
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Post by DarJones on Jul 1, 2014 7:17:05 GMT -5
Probably this is the result of the Fasciated gene which causes ovules to fuse into a single large fruit. A side effect is that the anther cone is split which leaves the stigma wide open for bee made crosses. Most smaller fruited tomatoes do not have this gene. In other words, you could have a series of crosses on your hands which is what you want. Long term, the fasciated gene should be bred away from for plants that are optimized for your climate. Instead, work toward the exerted stigma trait which is where the stigma protrudes from the anther cone. Exerted stigma is an open invitation to bees to do their thing and does not carry the automatic increase in days to maturity that fasciated brings.
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Jul 2, 2014 17:42:18 GMT -5
Probably this is the result of the Fasciated gene which causes ovules to fuse into a single large fruit. A side effect is that the anther cone is split which leaves the stigma wide open for bee made crosses. Most smaller fruited tomatoes do not have this gene. In other words, you could have a series of crosses on your hands which is what you want. Long term, the fasciated gene should be bred away from for plants that are optimized for your climate. Instead, work toward the exerted stigma trait which is where the stigma protrudes from the anther cone. Exerted stigma is an open invitation to bees to do their thing and does not carry the automatic increase in days to maturity that fasciated brings. I have been using a vibrator (sex-toy, much less expensive than electric toothbrush) to shake the tomato flowers hoping that it will lead to better early fruit set. Today I took the time to examine the flowers on each plant to see if any have exerted stigmas or other traits that might make natural cross pollination more likely. About 1/4 of the plants in the patch are currently flowering. There are lots of fruits about 3/4" in diameter. I found 3 plants with stigmas far outside the anther cone... Placed stakes by them so I can keep an eye on them. One was in the Matina row, and since it was the only Matina plant with that trait I suspect that it is a naturally occurring hybrid. The other two were DX52-12 which is almost-an-heirloom and is the standard by which I judge the suitability of tomatoes for my garden. The plants that I planted specifically for the cross-pollinating project are not flowering yet. |
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Jul 12, 2014 23:12:48 GMT -5
Here's photos of 3 plants that I have marked for closer scrutiny for use in the Promiscuously pollinating tomato project. These all have open anther cones and exposed stigmas. I was expecting that this would be a difficult project, but with so many plants already so close to the end goal it's looking encouraging. Be interesting when the bees start selecting flowers to visit. I was checking on some Jagodka tomatoes that I planted in a family member's garden, and there was a bumblebee on them. Woo Hoo! "Croatian Brandywine: Bees were all over this last year". Two plants are only now starting to flower, and I could have frost in as little as 7 weeks, so no telling if it will mature in time.  DX 52-12 (Hamson's): The long-term standard by which I judge trial tomatoes for suitability in my garden. This has mostly been replaced in my community by Celebrity, and in my garden by Jagodka. I still grow it because that is the point of having a standard tomato. I couldn't be happier that this glorious tomato already has at least some of the traits that I want for this project. This is a Moscow type that was developed about 45 years ago specifically for my valley. It is a determinate producing about 8 ounce fruits that crack around the stem. It has dense foliage that quickly forms a closed canopy and does a great job competing with weeds.  One Matina plant in the patch that has different flowers than the rest of them. Possibly a naturally occurring hybrid.  An average industrialized tomato flower: All closed up so that pollen can't easily get in nor out. Not much there to interest pollinators. The forward pointing flower petals serve as an additional deterrent to insects.  |
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Jul 15, 2014 15:11:27 GMT -5
A few more of the "Croatian Brandywine" are flowering. One of them had a very short (ball-like) anther cone so that the stigma sticks out of the flower by about 3/8".
I attempted to make some crosses this morning. In all cases от'Jagodka was the pollen donor. There are a hundred or so flowers on each от'Jagodka plant. I attempted crosses to two of the Brandywine flowers and to a half dozen DX 52-12 flowers. There were hardly any flowers on the Brandywines or I would have attempted more crosses. I flagged two of the Brandywine plants that have a particularly open flower structure.
My cross pollination technique was to choose a flower as the female which has not opened yet, then rip off the anther cone and petals. If that works without tearing off the style as well, then put a flag on the flower. Pinch off the other flowers in the cluster. Go get an от'Jagodka flower as the pollen donor. Tear the anther cone open until I find one that is overflowing with pollen. Take it to the mother and smear the pollen onto the stigma.
There were two species of bumblebee working the от'Jagodka plants this morning. A honey bee checked out a few flowers but wasn't interested in staying around. The honeybees were in the garden for weeds and for corn pollen.
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Jul 28, 2014 23:48:41 GMT -5
I watched a bumblebee working the tomato flowers on one plant from the promiscuous pollination project and then fly over to a different plant with an exerted stigma and work that as well. Didn't get clear photos of that particular event, but this is what it looked like in general:   I am feeling really content about this project... Don't know how well my attempted pollinations worked the other day. I suppose I aught to try again. |
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Aug 8, 2014 19:11:50 GMT -5
I attempted to make some crosses this morning. In all cases от'Jagodka was the pollen donor. Ooops. That was the wrong strategy... With my short growing season I should have used a Jagodka plant as the mother, because the fruits will ripen in about 6 weeks, while it will take 9 or more for the longer season tomatoes to ripen. So the longer season tomatoes are unlikely to ripen in the available growing season. Today I picked all the green tomatoes from a Jagodka plant that is still flowering and attempted pollinations of some of the flowers using pollen from plants with open/loose/split anther cones, or exerted stigmas, or that the bees are most fond of. I am using only one Jagodka plant so that I can cover it later on if necessary. I had my first major tomato harvest today. The tomatoes on the front row on the table are from the 4 best Jagodka plants, harvested plant-to-packet... Thank You DarJones!!! Best defined in this case as lots of early fruit, and two of the plants further chosen as lots of early BIG fruit. Big being relative considering what I have to work with. One of them split a lot from the rain, but for now I'm keeping it... The pile of tomatoes on the back/right are "Joseph's Earliest Landrace". They contain a few Jagodka & Matina. They are mostly the earliest varieties from previous years. About 2 fruits from each landrace plant that was producing today. They are low growing sprawlers. The basket contains about 1/2 Jagodka, 1/4 Matina, and 1/4 landrace tomatoes. Jagodka fruits are on top. I expect to save seeds from a couple more Jagodka plants later on, which are large pretty plants with big tomatoes, but they are later season... Hmm.  |
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Post by DarJones on Aug 8, 2014 23:21:10 GMT -5
I need to cross Bloody Butcher X Jagodka. Flavor from BB and early maturity plus determinate from Jagodka. It should be a very good combination. Joseph, I grow about 100 varieties of potato to find one that really performs in my climate. You do about the same with tomatoes. Hopefully you will find more outstandingly early varieties as your crosses develop. www.goodfoodworld.com/2014/04/how-i-became-a-plant-breeder/ |
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Aug 9, 2014 0:28:22 GMT -5
I loved the article. It listed my favorite seed companies... I have typically grown tomatoes hodge-podge style. Saving seeds from the most suitable plants, but mixing the seed of many different plants/cultivars together. After seeing the usefulness of ear-to-row planting in corn I am intending to use the same strategy with tomatoes next year. In addition to seeing which sibling groups do the best this may give me a chance to identify naturally hybridized plants or segregants. I planted part of my watermelon patch fruit-to-row this year. It's more work, so I plant part of the patches as bulk seed and part as fruit-to-row. We have been having thunderstorms and winds the last few weeks. I was in the popcorn patch today and noticed one sibling group in which every plant had lodged. I won't be saving seed from that sibling group for planting. |
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Post by imgrimmer on Aug 18, 2014 6:33:56 GMT -5
Joseph Lofthouse I`d like you to show a flower of a Jagodka. Does it look like yours? What do you think? All of my Jagodka flowers are this way, I expected it with excerted stigma...  Thank you! Michael
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Aug 18, 2014 13:17:19 GMT -5
In my garden the anther cone around the Jadodka flowers is very tight and small. (Smaller than the diameter of the stigma). As far as I can tell the photographed flower looks the same as in my garden. (I can't see an exerted stigma).
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