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Post by Carol Deppe on Sept 28, 2014 17:36:24 GMT -5
Bees love 'Stupice'. That's my favorite early tomato, a full flavored red from Czechoslovakia that is up to about 2" across. It has a protruding style and potato leaf foliage. It's indeterminate. The bees will be all over the 'Stupice' and ignore most of the other tomatoes, even those with protruding styles.
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Oct 19, 2014 22:26:56 GMT -5
To follow up on this thread, and document my progress towards a promiscuously pollinating tomato that will thrive in my garden...
I collected about 150 seeds from my attempts to make crosses:
[Ot'Jagodka X Loose/Open]
[Hillbilly -- or Virginia Sweets -- X Ot'Jagodka] Perhaps both mothers.
[DX52-12 X Ot'Jagodka]
The mother plant is listed first. Lose/Open consisted of any flower I could find on the days I attempted the cross pollinations from plants with loose or open flower structures from the following varieties: Croatian Brandywine, Hillbilly, Virginia Sweets, DX52-12, and/or [Black Early, Indian Stripe, Danko, Zolotoe Serdise, and F1 crosses between them]. These varieties were mostly way too long season for my garden. Many of them didn't ripen a fruit even though our tomato killing frosts were 5 weeks later than average. Some of them died just after transplanting due to not getting along with the bugs, or the aridity, etc. I collected a mixture of seeds from fruits of Loose/Open that ripened in time. I expect to replant them as a possible pollen source for loose or open flower structures. It will also be interesting to see if I can shorten the days to maturity in this group by recurrent mass selection. (Ooops. I suppose that I already have.) I dislike the taste of tomatoes, but Hillbilly and/or Virginia Sweets seems almost decent to me. I remember growing Hillbilly decades ago when I lived in a warmer climate and thinking that it was a wonderful tomato.
I use the name "Ot'Jagodka", because Jagodka originated in Russia, and "Ot" is the Russian language prefix meaning "Descended From". I know who's the mamma, but I don't know for sure who's the daddy considering the heavy pollinator pressure on Jagodka last year. There were differences in phenotype among the 100 or so Jagodka plants that I grew, but I don't know if they can all be attributed to slight differences in micro-environment or if some of them can be attributed to crossing. I saved some of them fruit-to-packet so I might be able to tell next year.
I'm currently stewing about the possibility of growing out some of the F1 seed overwinter. I suppose that the germination testing chamber could serve a dual purpose. I'm wondering how much I could crank up the Growing Degree Days?
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Feb 3, 2015 0:33:02 GMT -5
Comparing Ot'Jagodka to an F1 hybrid -- [Hillbilly (or Virginia Sweets) X Ot'Jagodka]. Planted at the same time and treated to the same conditions. I'm attempting to grow these out to get F2 seed by the first of May. I also sent seed to a grower in Alabama, who will attempt to get F2 seed for me as well. Sure be nice to shorten the process by a growing season if we can pull it off.  I received Stupice seeds in a trade. |
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Post by philagardener on Feb 3, 2015 18:40:49 GMT -5
Not exactly hybrid vigor, if the cross really is on the right!
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Feb 23, 2015 14:38:30 GMT -5
The Jagodka plants mostly got planted into the greenhouse (or non-heated walk-in cold-frame, whatever I am calling it these days). They have been kept alive so far because they were planted under cloches, surrounded by bottles of water, under a couple layers of floating row cover. They are just starting to flower. Temperatures of the air surrounding the plants is about 45 at night and 55 to 60 during the day. Way cold, but they were the winner of my cold/frost tolerance trial. I'd love some early fruit to take to market.  The hybrids that I am growing in the house are also flowering. From left to right the hybrids are: [DX52-12 X Ot'Jagodka], [Ot'Jagodka X Loose/Open], [Hillbilly X Ot'Jagodka]. There is also a Jagodka plant indoors which is not shown.  The first flower of [DX52-12 X Ot'Jagodka] is closed like Jagodka and not open like DX52-12. The first flower to open on [Ot'Jagodka X Loose/Open] has an exerted stigma like the pollen donor. The hybrids that are currently flowering are a bit earlier than Jagodka.  I am attempting to pollinate the flowers with both buzz pollination and brushing.  |
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Apr 19, 2015 10:25:13 GMT -5
First fruit of the season!!! This is an F1 hybrid: [DX52-12 X Ot'Jagodka]. I grew it under grow lights in the basement, hoping to get F2 seed overwinter... Fruit size is typical of Jagodka. Don't know if that means anything because they were grown in pots. So now I'm all indecisive... Fussing over how soon to harvest the fruit, and what methods to use. Any recommendations? Today is my regularly scheduled day to plant tomato seeds for my field.  |
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Post by templeton on Apr 19, 2015 17:21:07 GMT -5
Joseph, this link link shows how to slow ripening, but also includes info on speeding it up. Ethylene gas, from a ripe tomato or banana inside a paper bag slipped over the fruit should speed the process, but whether it will also speed seed ripening I don't know. Or maybe some reflective film or foil underneath to help the ripening? Your intense sunlight might lead to scalding tho. You could use Wagner's chemical processing to speed up the seed prep by a couple of days... T |
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Post by DarJones on Apr 19, 2015 19:19:20 GMT -5
The seed in a tomato are mostly mature by the time the fruit starts to turn color. I have saved seed from fruits that had just barely begun to change and had good success growing plants from them.
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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on Apr 21, 2015 12:28:26 GMT -5
This sounds like a fascinating project. How goes the progress on it?
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Apr 21, 2015 13:04:39 GMT -5
FusionPower: Thanks. I'll harvest the fruit today.
Keen101: Last year I made hybrids between my earliest, highly-determinate, most-productive tomato and some tomatoes with loose/open flowers.
During the winter I grew out some F1 seed from each of the crosses... I currently have one ripe tomato from one of the crosses. It aughta provide F2 seed. Both parents were determinate... One with small fruits and very early. One with large fruits and almost too long-season. So I expect to select among the F2 for plants with lose/open flowers. I may also select for large fruits and short season if possible.
I made two other crosses between my earliest productive tomato and indeterminate pollen donors with loose/open flowers. They currently have fruit on them which I expect to ripen in the next couple weeks. Hopefully in time to have F2 seed for this growing season. So I intend to select among these for determinate growth habit as well as for loose/open flowers. One of the crosses was to Hillbilly which is a bi-color yellow/red tomato. Perhaps I'll be able to find something from that cross which I might find palatable.
I have some F1 seed that didn't get planted yet. I'm intending to plant that as well.
I also have some seed saved from the earliest maturing of the very late season indeterminates that had loose/open flowers. I intend to grow that out and select another year for early maturity. Some of these might be naturally occurring hybrids. A row of Jagodka was growing 6 feet away. Jagodka was highly favored by bumblebees who also visited this group.
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Post by reed on Apr 22, 2015 5:07:35 GMT -5
I'm going to do a "survival of the fittest" tomato test this year. I have about 40 kinds including Stupace, some disease resistant hybrids, some heirlooms and some of Joseph's landraces. I am going to make a bed about 5' wide and 50' long and direct seed them all. I am not going to stake or even keep track of which is which. They should be a crowded jumbled mess, I'm going to mix the seed so that each kind will be dispersed across the whole bed. I'll just watch for good growth, good tasting fruits and vines that appear to have disease tolerance. Anything that doesn't do at least one of those things will get plucked out, unless it has open flowers, I'll keep those.
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Jul 16, 2015 22:19:46 GMT -5
The Jagodka plants in the greenhouse are all dead. The [Hillbilly X Jagodka] F2 plants are indeterminate and growing strongly. They're not currently flowering, but they are ripening fruit. The [DX52-12 X Jagodka] F2 plants are still growing, flowering, and ripening fruit, even though they are determinate. The [DX52-12 X Jagodka] F2 plants in the field have mostly started flowering. Most of the flowers are as industrialized as can be. I haven't found any yet with the open anther cones of the mother of the cross. I did however find two plants with very exerted stigmas. [DX52-12 X Jagodka] F2 plants: exerted stigmas.  I also found this flower on one of the landrace plants: Huge petals, and exposed stigma.  Also, turns out that I have already been growing tomatoes that have something to contribute to the promiscuous pollination project. This flower is from a dehybridized SunGold plant (about F4). With Solanum habrochaites as a presumed parent of the cross, it looks like it may have something to contribute to the project. Too bad I didn't grow SunGold this summer. But I am growing one SunSugar plant... Hmmm. I wonder what crosses I aught to be making? Dehybridized SunGold. Tomato flower with exerted stigma and huge petals.  |
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Post by nicollas on Jul 17, 2015 0:31:45 GMT -5
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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on Jul 17, 2015 12:27:56 GMT -5
looking good. Looks like you are making progress. Yeah, open flowers with long stigmas would make for a much higher rate of out crossing.
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