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Post by oldmobie on May 23, 2014 20:59:55 GMT -5
I want to save seeds from my Michihili cabbage, but I'd rather not pass on any male anther sterility. If this is informative, it's producing obvious seed pods. I don't really know how to tell if the flowers are normal or not. It appears to my VERY untrained eye, that the female part (I don't even know the name.) is central, with 4 or 5 anthers around it. Am I right? Are those the anthers? Does everything look normal?   |
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on May 23, 2014 23:43:51 GMT -5
Looks like a normal brassica flower to me. It has anthers. Male sterile brassicas are often missing both the anthers and the filaments (stems) that the anthers hang from, or the filaments are a mere stub. I can't tell if the anthers are releasing pollen, but they are not obviously shriveled or discolored. If bees are all over the flowers that's another sign to watch for in healthy flowers. Male sterile brassica flowers often have a defective nectary as well, so they offer neither nectar nor pollen to attract pollinators.
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Post by oxbowfarm on May 24, 2014 16:08:18 GMT -5
Those look fertile. If you want to check if it is shedding pollen brush the anthers with your finger in mid morning, a little after it has warmed up and the dew is off of everything. You should see some yellow streaks of pollen on your finger. If you wait till the afternoon this test may or may not work, often the bees pretty efficiently have the pollen all stripped out by then.
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Post by raymondo on May 24, 2014 16:16:01 GMT -5
Looks normal to me. Like Joseph, I can't tell if the anthers are shedding pollen or not. You're the best placed to discover that. Are you growing different cultivars or just the one? If only one and the pods forming have seeds then I doubt there is any CMS issue.
By the way, the female bit that accepts pollen is the stigma which is supported by a style, just as the anther is supported by a filament.
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Post by oldmobie on May 24, 2014 16:20:38 GMT -5
Thank you! I will try to test for pollen at the appropriate time. I couldn't get any yesterday, but it was afternoon, just after a rain. I really wasn't too surprised that it failed.
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Post by oldmobie on May 24, 2014 16:30:51 GMT -5
Looks normal to me. Like Joseph, I can't tell if the anthers are shedding pollen or not. You're the best placed to discover that. Are you growing different cultivars or just the one? If only one and the pods forming have seeds then I doubt there is any CMS issue. By the way, the female bit that accepts pollen is the stigma which is supported by a style, just as the anther is supported by a filament. Only the one cabbage, though I'm growing a few relatives. Pak Choi, radish, collards, broccoli, cauliflower, chard. None of those are blooming yet, so I really just mention them to be thorough. The pods are swelling and bumpy, so I think there are seeds. I suppose they aren't viable until they turn brown, but with so many, I may open a large one and check. Forgot kohlrabi. Also not blooming. |
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Post by oldmobie on May 24, 2014 21:17:01 GMT -5
 Still gonna check the anthers for pollen transfer, because I'm anal thorough like that, but it looks as if all's well and I get to save seeds and try again. |
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Post by oxbowfarm on May 25, 2014 10:03:03 GMT -5
I would be careful about the pac choi, it is the same species so it will cross perfectly with your Michihili and it is amazing how fast pac choi can switch from vegetative to flowering mode. It really guns it when it flips the switch. Theoretically your Michihili could cross with the radish, broccoli, and cauliflower, but it would be at an extremely low level and the hybrid plants would be obvious and easily rogued out. Chard isn't remotely related the brassicas.
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Post by oldmobie on May 25, 2014 10:36:47 GMT -5
Chard isn't remotely related the brassicas. I'm afraid you caught me working from memory, instead of doing the research. To tell the truth, I'm curious enough to grow out the crossed seeds and see what they produce, but I would like to also harvest some uncrossed seed to see how this cabbage was meant to taste. If I were to mark the seeds produced before the pak choi blooms, then I'd have pure seed (barring pollen donors I don't know about) right? Then each seed produced after the pac choi blooming would be a potential cross? |
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Post by raymondo on May 25, 2014 17:13:18 GMT -5
Yes indeed.
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Post by oxbowfarm on May 27, 2014 6:21:18 GMT -5
An easy way to mark would be to strip the flowers off the stem for a few inches at the point where the pac choi started flowering. Anything below the gap is Michihili, everything above it is a potential cross. I'd say that if you have a sizable block of Michihili and the pac choi isn't too close by, then your not going to get a high percentage of crossed seed. The bees will tend to work the bigger block of flowers more consistently and not wander back and forth between two patches with a big separation between them.
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Post by raymondo on May 27, 2014 17:24:46 GMT -5
In that situation, if I want a cross to happen, I move plants together. Alternatively, on a fine sunny morning you could cut some flower stems of one and put them among the flower stems of the other. The bees will work the flowers long enough to transfer pollen and you will have a pretty good idea of which flowers are most likely crossed.
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Post by oldmobie on May 28, 2014 1:11:34 GMT -5
In that situation, if I want a cross to happen, I move plants together. Alternatively, on a fine sunny morning you could cut some flower stems of one and put them among the flower stems of the other. The bees will work the flowers long enough to transfer pollen and you will have a pretty good idea of which flowers are most likely crossed. This picture is a little dated now, but it'll show that distance won't be an issue.  |
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Post by oldmobie on May 28, 2014 15:15:36 GMT -5
I was just reading about netiquette on another forum, and it reminded me: Thanks again, everyone, for your help and your time!
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on May 28, 2014 15:27:30 GMT -5
oldmobie: It's nice to see someone newly excited about growing genetically-diverse locally-adapted crops. This is my 5th season growing landraces. It's a lot of work to have to depend on myself to grow all of the seed I need for my farm. Exciting yes, but if I have a crop failure, or I store my root crops wrong, or forget to replant something... I lost my radish landrace seed. I am heartbroken. They are one of those marginal crops for me in the first place that might produce a decent harvest some years if I am lucky. I don't think that I have the inclination to start over. I am pretty much focusing only on staples, and spring radishes don't fit that criteria.
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