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Post by Srdjan Gavrilovic on Aug 21, 2018 14:47:10 GMT -5
Not sure if this was posted already... Anyways hope that some of you will find it useful. hortsci.ashspublications.org/content/47/4/452.fullIn general, what they showed (again, long time shown for egg plant and few others) is that for recombinant lines that "escaped" fertility issues, further crossing with any of ancestral species is much easier. The new lines got "selected" against combinations/mechanisms/genes/alleles that make species isolated. Far all of you having interspecific crosses and fertile descendants, save/share them and don't forget how special they are. Chances are that they are great bridge lines for further breeding and improvement. |
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Post by mskrieger on Sept 4, 2018 13:55:03 GMT -5
The next grow update: first, a question for Joseph Lofthouse How long do your maximoss squash take to fully mature and detach from the vine? The first two squash to set have already done this for me (Friday 31 August), which would mean 96 days from seed to maturity, which is pretty short for squash in my experience. Is this typical in your fields? Second, none of the moschata squash I planted for comparison amidst the maximoss set fruit. I suspect this means maximoss can't pollinate moschata, and the plants were just swamped with maximoss pollen. On the other hand, it looks like the maxima I planted set a couple of fruit--they look like small versions of Carol Deppe Sweet Meat (seed the only fruit of her seed that survived in my garden last time I planted. Maxima don't generally survive here.) However, there is one fruit in your pic of maximoss that looks similar (grey round on the lower left) so it may be that. Not sure how to tell. In general, the maximoss set so much fruit that I am pretty sure they are self-fertile. |
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Sept 4, 2018 18:29:04 GMT -5
mskrieger: Thanks for the grow report. The first few years my moschata squash had growing seasons from planting to first frost of 84 and 88 days. More than 75% of varieties that I planted didn't set fruit. So yes, they were selected very hard for early maturity. I expect my frost free season to be June 5th to September 6th, (91 days). This year, I was harvesting "Small Moschata" after about 65 days. The medium are more like 85 days. I don't remember squash detaching from the vine, so that's news to me. (Other than acorn and delicata, but I don't think that I've been sharing that seed yet.) Maximoss is still really diverse, so I'd estimate days to maturity at between 75 and 110. I typically don't save seeds from anything that takes more than 90 days to mature. The Maximoss are definitely acting self-fertile in my garden now. There still might be an occasional male-sterile plant, but on the whole, they seem to be flowering normally. The Maximoss have picked up traits that are common for squash in my garden, or developed some of their own. I hope to post photos in a couple weeks. In the meantime... Here is a photo of a Maximoss (Moschata X Maxima) plant. Where did the maple-shaped leaves come from? Pepo? Argyrosperma? Mospermia? I haven't seen that leaf-shape in either Moschata nor Maxima.  High Resolution image.
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Post by mskrieger on Sept 5, 2018 13:09:59 GMT -5
The Maximoss have picked up traits that are common for squash in my garden, or developed some of their own. I hope to post photos in a couple weeks. In the meantime... Here is a photo of a Maximoss (Moschata X Maxima) plant. Where did the maple-shaped leaves come from? Pepo? Argyrosperma? Mospermia? I haven't seen that leaf-shape in either Moschata nor Maxima. High Resolution image.How strange! Those leaves look like pepo leaves to me...but arranged on the stem more like moschata. And yes, detaching completely from the vine has occurred in two different plants so far. I believe because the stem/vine attachment died and dried. From what you're telling me, your season doesn't give the plants enough time to do that! (This was after 96 days.) Not sure if it happened because of the bacterial wilt, which seems to attack the older parts of the plant first, or because the fruit was plenty ripe and the plant was done with its job. Also of note: one of the two I've harvested so far was mostly red and orange with green patches. Didn't see that color in your picture. It's usually not associated with good tasting squash except in hybrids such as Johnny Selected's "Sunshine" but we'll see in 6 weeks or so when I start the taste tests! |
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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on Sept 5, 2018 13:18:05 GMT -5
Cool! Interesting squash line...
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Post by jocelyn on Sept 8, 2018 8:44:19 GMT -5
My squashes are pretty much hidden in the leaves right now.
Later, when the leaves die down a bit, I'll post pictures...orange/reds, yellows,
greens, striped....all out of the same population.
We usually get June 3 or 4 to October 20 or so, frost free. Some years, less.
How about other folks?
We are on high ground, some of our neighbours in the lower part of the valley get frost by September 15.
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Post by mskrieger on Sept 11, 2018 12:02:48 GMT -5
I believe I am at much lower latitude than you, Jocelyn, and much lower ground (up on a hill only 142 feet above sea level). I generally plant squash on Memorial Day, and melons a week later. Our frost-free season officially runs from May 15 to October 11, but in recent years frosts in October have become more and more uncommon. The increasing warmth of the water in Long Island Sound is what delays the autumn. Further inland the effect is less pronounced. The lobsters and some of the fish don't like the warmer water, but October swimming is fabulous  . |
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Post by jocelyn on Sept 12, 2018 3:22:56 GMT -5
Hard to say some years what to do, harvest or not. We're pretty far north, compared to NY and Montana, but the Gulf slows spring and slows fall.
Our elevation is only about 125 feet above sea level, but some of the neighbours are at 30 feet, and their season is a month shorter.
Some years we do get a frost in Sept, but it's usually the fall storms whistling up the river valley that strip the leaves off the raspberries, cutting off the fall crop, sending peaches to the ground and generally wrecking some of the fruits and nuts.
Chestnuts are not ready here till late Oct, and walnuts usually come in November, after a light frost....pears too, early November.
Some years the fall storms send stuff to the ground before complete nut fill, most years it's OK.
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Post by mskrieger on Oct 1, 2018 8:45:19 GMT -5
Did the first taste test of a maximoss on Friday night. Tasted pleasant when raw, and the flesh was fairly thick with a small seed cavity. A good amount of fat, full seed, though plenty of empty seed cases too. When baked, its texture was pretty good; not as dry as the best maximas, but good and substantial; no one would call it watery. It had OK flavor but was not sweet. I'm not sure how much of that is due to the incredibly wet season, but I'm guessing that's a factor. The squash also had only cured for four weeks, so its flavor may not be fully developed. Thanks again, Joseph Lofthouse, for the seed of this new variety! I'll report back again if any of the squash are dramatically better in flavor and texture; but otherwise, I'm rating this one "good enough to keep" due to its excellent vigor and disease resistance and good flesh quality; next year I'll grow out the rest of the seed I have left, and possibly try crossing in some of the exceptionally sweet maximas that do well to the north of me, out of squash borer range. |
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Oct 1, 2018 10:35:22 GMT -5
The squash also had only cured for four weeks, so its flavor may not be fully developed. There is a paper that claims that Tetsukabuto, one of the parents of Maximoss "is not edible at harvest; it must be stored for several months before eating/marketing and should be marketed from December through March". |
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Post by mskrieger on Oct 1, 2018 12:01:43 GMT -5
Thank you, that report is intriguing. One of the other points it makes about Tetsukabuto is that it is "extremely resistant to rot". I chose the squash to cook first based on the fact that it appeared to have begun to rot on one side; however, when I pressed and probed, it had corked over beneath the rot, the surface had hardened, and the interior of the squash was entirely sound.
There are plenty of squash, so I can bake one every week or so through at least February and we shall see how the flavor improves!
(Yield, as the report also indicates, was impressive, as was disease resistance. So obviously some positive traits from tetsukabuto seem to be stabilizing in a self-fertile line. This is excellent.)
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Post by reed on Oct 1, 2018 12:28:24 GMT -5
The squash also had only cured for four weeks, so its flavor may not be fully developed. There is a paper that claims that Tetsukabuto, one of the parents of Maximoss "is not edible at harvest; it must be stored for several months before eating/marketing and should be marketed from December through March". Interesting, I haven't eaten one yet but I tasted the sticky sap that oozed from the skin of one with a little scrape. It tasted like syrup, so sweet I'm wondering what the squash itself will be like. |
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Post by mskrieger on Oct 22, 2018 10:37:11 GMT -5
Second taste test: this was the first squash to mature, very large. Very similar to tetsukabuto pic reed posted here on the inside. It was baked Friday 19 October, so exactly 6 weeks after harvest. The flesh was dry, as dry as the best maximas, but utterly tasteless. Not bad, just...nothing. "Like eating cement". But I left the remaining flesh (it was a huge squash) to sit out on the counter overnight, intending to bake it into pie the next day. Much to our surprise, it had sweetened up and developed a very tasty flavor by the next afternoon! Ended up making gnocchi with some of it, and people liked the flavor and texture but found the gnocchi oddly sweet. I'm going to let the rest of these squash sit at least another two weeks before baking any more of them. Certainly serves up the surprises! |
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Post by xdrix on Aug 23, 2019 7:09:03 GMT -5
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Post by diane on Aug 23, 2019 12:12:50 GMT -5
I sent a request for permission to look at one of your photos. I'm waiting for it to arrive. I wonder if I will need to ask permission separately for each of the three photos.
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High Resolution image.
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