Jack in the Beanstalk...a cautionary tale. What? Joseph? You need 20 more beans? Pole? Bush? Dry?
12540dumont: with the most recent box you sent I'm way over 100 varieties of common beans. It's just a matter of getting them all into the ground on planting day. Now I've got my sights set on 500 varieties... I'll probably achieve that this growing season. oxbowfarm sent a packet of bean seeds that are segregating hybrids of a cross of a cross. And the Brown Trout cross is expected to produce lots of segregates this summer.
I'm doing pretty well these days with common beans, favas, teparies, garbanzos, and peas. I'm gonna give soybeans another chance this summer. Perhaps this will be the year that the cowpeas become adapted to my fields. Maybe next... I'll give rice beans and asparagus beans another try. I have my heart set on being able to grow runner beans like my grandfather did. They might even get spoiled this year after last year's sunflower disaster.
Silt/clay, high-altitude, super-arid, sun-drenched, irrigated-desert garden. Cold radiant-cooled nights. ~100 frost free days. Grow most of my own locally adapted landrace seed. GDD10C ~1300. Buy my book or subscribe to my newsletter at Lofthouse.com.
12540dumont, It's too late, beans under the couch cushions, beans under the bed, beans in the butter dish, trellis for runner beans is already up. Family won't make eye contact, bean and corn are four letter words.
They don't even know about carrots, potatoes, squash ....
Nothing ruins a neighborhood like paved roads and water lines.
Hah, what a good thing we all have each other. We can bore our families, but not completely alienate them by blowing off some vegetable steam here.
As for beans, my goal this year is to cross Cherokee Trail of Tears with Blue Lake S7. I've only had two or three crosses show up in my garden, and as far as I can see, the father has always been Cherokee Trail of Tears. That's not why I'm choosing it; I just hope that makes it easier. CToT has shown a fair bit of resistance to the anthracnose we've had the last couple of years. Blue Lake does not; but Blue Lake is my favourite bean for freezing, so we grow a lot of it. Blue Lake is white seeded and very uniform and productive; CToT is black seeded and quite diverse in colour/shape/number of pods produced per plant. So far as flavour goes, they are quite similar. So ultimately, I'd like to end up with something like Blue Lake again, only with anthracnose resistance added.
I have to admit given how little beans cross in my garden I'm not really inclined to landrace them, but I grew out one of my crosses this year and got a mixture of white, black, brown, yellow, and speckled beans of similar shape and size. I wasn't crazy about any of them by themselves, but they look so pretty as a mix! I will see if they continue to keep the same size and shape - which I think will be important for even cooking - and if so, they will make a good "landrace".
ferdzy, have you tried Ideal Market? Very similar to CT of T except less strings and less purple coloring. Produce a little better too I think. Thankfully never had much problem with anthracnose but a few KY Wonder leaves looked a little funky last year, might have been overkill but I ripped out the whole bunch of em.
I'm not sure what I will do in crosses. Was thinking of taking one or two plants of several kinds and pollinating different flowers on each of them with each of the others. Then growing the surprises and doing it again.
Nothing ruins a neighborhood like paved roads and water lines.
Maybe if I want to make a bean landrace I should start paying attention: That big bunch around the bottom and left are Rattlesnake. The two top right look like maybe I accidentally dumped in a coupe of Kentucky Wonder. The light pile in the middle and the dark four at the top are maybe just variation within Rattlesnake but I have never ever planted any beans that look like the ones in the box. Maybe I already got the start of a landrace and didn't even know it. Now to look at all my other seeds and see if anything pops out. I got some odd Cherokee TT but think they might just be malformed cause of poor conditions while maturing.
I don't have any idea what might have grown near these in years past so no way to even guess what might have crossed with them.
This thread has inspired me to try a bit of bean crossing, I will have Cherokee TOT & Sultana on the plot next to each other this year. Cherokee has a small black bean but I have been told the pods are not great for eating green, Sultana has a small white bean white & is good eating at all stages. What will come of a mixture?
I do like dry black turtle beans in a chilli con carne so dry beans a bit bigger than Cherokee would be a result, & earliness is desirable here in northern Europe. Should I just shop around for different varieties to try or risk descent into the murky world of the beaniac breeder? I fear early symptoms are already evident, such as planting shop bought chick peas & white kidney beans from the larder, perhaps I should try turtle beans too?
I all too familiar with the glazed eye regard from family as allium fixation has already been diagnosed, discussions about any foray into bean crossing will have to strictly confined to this forum or I will just be written off as the swivel-eyed loon with onions AND beans in his pockets.
Post by flowerweaver on Mar 2, 2015 12:13:00 GMT -5
Haven't seen much crossing in my beans either ferdzy. I think there are way too many delectable wildflowers blooming here at the same time that both my bees and the wild ones prefer.
This year I'm scaling back on the pumpkins to add more room and an additional strip field for beans. I haven't made my complete list yet, but I think I will be sowing about 200+ kinds. Some are from what's left after the tornado of my landrace project, many are from kind friends who have gifted me with seeds from their various bean projects (from which I expect some exciting segregating), and some rare and in need of increasing in a longer season for others.
Drip irrigated gardening in the arid southwest on a beautiful pile of alluvial rocks where the hill country meets the desert. It's a food desert, too: a 3 hour round trip to the grocery store.
This is a small black bean in a pod about 5 inches long. Flowers are deep pinkish purple. Heat tolerance is the best I've seen including all common commercial beans such as Rattlesnake. It is not day length sensitive in my climate. Quantity of beans produced is relatively high though volume produced is poor as expected given bean size. Most important to me is that disease tolerance is off the scale better than any other bean I've grown.
I got seed and multiplied it from about 20 in the original package to a few hundred seed which I then interplanted with Fortex in 2014. Carpenter bees worked the blossoms heavily. I have a package of about 300 seed saved from the Fortex beans that will be planted this year. How will I know the hybrids? The pink flower trait is dominant, all I have to do is grow the beans and save seed from any pink flowered plants.
There is still a long process of screening and selecting to be done. From discussion with Jim Myers at OSU, I will likely have to make at least one back cross to Fortex to get rid of undesirable traits such as small size, heavy strings, etc.
I'v been thinking more on how to make bean crosses and since hand pollinating individual flowers is not something I am likely to do I think I came up with a workaround. I have a theory that if you have a lot of bumble bees like we do that bean crosses happen on their own a lot more than commonly thought. The problem is that the cross may only be a single bean in all the crop, it doesn't show up visually the year it happens and most is harvested to eat. There was a cross or two in there but you never knew it.
What if for example in a row of p. vulgaris a person plants just one or two seeds of a different variety or species to serve as mothers. Now as the bees do their job chances are much higher that a cross on to the different plant will occur just because most of the near by pollen is from the other variety. Then you just save and plant all of the seed from that plant. I bet you might have new crosses pop up all over the place. You could even know who the father was so it might be possible to make selected crosses this way instead of just random ones.
I was re-reading Carol's most recent book last night and she says that crossing between two beans grown side by side is around 5%. If that is the case then growing a couple of one in a patch of another should bring that percentage up even higher. I'm pretty sure she was talking about two varieties of p vulgaris. I'm starting to think p vulgaris crosses are probably fairly easy to make.
Now I'm wondering what the percent of crossing could be achieved between other species. What I really want is some crosses with wild beans, p polystachios or runner beans, p coccineus to make a nice productive perennial that will grow here. Using limas, P lunatus is certainly not out of the question either. Guess I'm in for a long haul to find out which ones will cross with which and what comes out of it when they do.
keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.): Looking for Goldini Zucchini again. Thinking of setting up my own seed shop for OSSI varieties in the future.
Apr 2, 2022 3:58:57 GMT -5
gratefulseedsaver: I have Goldini seeds. firstname.lastname@example.org
Oct 8, 2022 18:46:12 GMT -5
wilscase: Hello all. My name is Casey Wilson. I'
Oct 18, 2022 21:31:32 GMT -5
wilscase: I'm a graduate student at Oregon State and have been working with populations segrgating for different color genes such as the B gene in Cucurbita. I'm curious if anyone has experience with crosses in Cucurbita maxima between grey blue types and orange?
Oct 18, 2022 21:33:14 GMT -5
wilscase: I have been backcrossing to the grey parent for 4 generations and have finally selfed the heterozygotes (for the Bmax gene) the populations have segregated for diffuse bicolor (pink/blue, orange green), blue green, blue, green, pink (salmon) and orange
Oct 18, 2022 21:36:29 GMT -5
wilscase: The genes involved are Bmax and bl. I have observed that Bmax is incompletely dominant to wild type (green). I have read that bl is incompletely recessive to Bl(wild type). I'm curious if anyone else has observed the behavior of Bmax in a grey/blue type
Oct 18, 2022 21:38:28 GMT -5
wilscase: It appears that bl and Bmax are interacting to produce different shades of salmon and pink.
Oct 18, 2022 21:38:52 GMT -5
wilscase: I'm also interested in any other color genetics, especially the relationships between B and L genes. In the right background these genes can dramatically increase Carotenoids (vitamin A)
Oct 18, 2022 21:40:09 GMT -5
wilscase: I have lots of germplasm and would love to exchange anything that people are interested in
Oct 18, 2022 21:41:56 GMT -5