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Post by kyredneck on Sept 10, 2014 19:14:37 GMT -5
Are they as efficient as a row planting or not? Although my granddaughter and I think they're neat (I think of them as individual units, like a tomato cage) I'm not convinced they're as productive as a straight row trellis; primarily because the top eventually closes off sunlight to the interior, also this is my first year dabbling with these things and I unmindfully oriented the 'walls' facing N-S which I'm now convinced the walls should have E-W exposure with each getting at least 1/2 day sunlight.
You can see here the north facing wall is shaded all day long whenever the vines reach the top. Dumb me.
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Post by steev on Sept 10, 2014 20:33:10 GMT -5
Think you're right on the E/W facing. For many pole beans, those panels may be too small to prevent counter-productive overgrowth. If your granddaughter is <10 years old, the appeal of such structures is undeniable. You're blessed to have a grand-child with whom to share your garden; these experiences will resonate throughout her life, as they will doubtless fill your heart.
Food isn't all that grows in a garden.
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Post by oldmobie on Sept 10, 2014 23:22:34 GMT -5
You've gotten far better coverage than I have. My "tunnel" runs north and south. I think the majority of coverage I did get is from Triomfo Violetto, Rattlesnake and Blue Lake. I'm in zone 6 SW Missouri, with a few hours of morning shade, then full sun all day. Could I get the stats that lead to your success?  |
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Post by kyredneck on Sept 11, 2014 5:28:28 GMT -5
Think you're right on the E/W facing. For many pole beans, those panels may be too small to prevent counter-productive overgrowth. If your granddaughter is <10 years old, the appeal of such structures is undeniable. You're blessed to have a grand-child with whom to share your garden; these experiences will resonate throughout her life, as they will doubtless fill your heart. Food isn't all that grows in a garden. Thank you. Excellent points. I suppose I will always include at least a couple of these 'units' just for the charm of it. |
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Post by kyredneck on Sept 11, 2014 5:32:38 GMT -5
You've gotten far better coverage than I have. My "tunnel" runs north and south. I think the majority of coverage I did get is from Triomfo Violetto, Rattlesnake and Blue Lake. I'm in zone 6 SW Missouri, with a few hours of morning shade, then full sun all day. Could I get the stats that lead to your success? When did you plant your beans? I never plant beans until the moon is waxing in Scorpio.  |
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Post by oldmobie on Sept 11, 2014 11:33:10 GMT -5
When did you plant your beans? I never plant beans until the moon is waxing in Scorpio. First planting on May 17. Replanted June 3, as my trade beans (Trionfo Violetto and Rattlesnake) were germinated 100%, while my store-bought seeds germinated at less than 50%. Then on June 20, I put a group of each seed in a flat to tranplant whatever actually came up. I'm afraid I don't know how to translate waxing moon in scorpio into a date. Can you recommend a website to break that down for me? |
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Post by kyredneck on Sept 11, 2014 15:41:06 GMT -5
Please forgive me, I was being a wee bit facetious and attempting at some humor when I implied that I 'planted by the signs', albeit I know of old timers that did and seemed to always have successful gardens.
I can't say what may have went awry with your planting; my strategy with pole beans is to sow them in clumps of 2-3 8" apart and selectively thin them out when they're up; but this requires that you have ample seed to do this with. In fact, the middle arbor was goose beans saved from at least 12 years ago and I sowed them extra thick and wound up with probably 90% germination, so I really had to thin them out later. Also, my soil has excellent tilth so any seeds planted really don't have to 'struggle' to emerge.
A little OT, but when we lived in town there was an old couple down the street that we became friends with who gardened by the almanac; what I remember most about him is that he had saved his own seed for years and had interplanted White half runners with Golden Bantam corn consistently with success. I asked, and he showed me; the corn was planted 2 seeds @ 18" apart with 2 beans added when the corn was up 12". I attempted my own version of this with Silver Queen corn and Blue Lake pole beans, and, what a disaster. A July thunderstorm took it all down like a Sherman tank went through the middle of it. I got zilch corn from it but bookoo beans, but they were a pain to pick.
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I forgot to mention that he hilled dirt around the corn when planting the beans. |
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Sept 11, 2014 15:55:52 GMT -5
Please forgive me, I was being a wee bit facetious and attempting at some humor when I implied that I 'planted by the signs', Thanks for confessing so quickly. Saves me the effort of asking my shaman about what it means. |
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Post by kyredneck on Sept 11, 2014 16:25:00 GMT -5
Lol, Joseph has a shaman? I've got a witchy MIL. All you need is a Farmer's Almanac. No shaman required. Ah, I've a sense of humor that's gotten me in trouble since I was a kid, but I just can't help it sometimes... No harm intended. |
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Post by oldmobie on Sept 11, 2014 17:34:23 GMT -5
Please forgive me, I was being a wee bit facetious and attempting at some humor when I implied that I 'planted by the signs', albeit I know of old timers that did and seemed to always have successful gardens. Nothing to forgive. I wondered, but I hated to assume. People can be touchy regarding their beliefs, and I'm reluctant to offend. You can read that "dork" if you like. |
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Post by kyredneck on Sept 11, 2014 18:14:50 GMT -5
Mobie, how many panels do you have together in your pic, four? It appears that you butted them all together with no space in between, right? I allowed space because I planted lettuce and green onions through the middle and had to be able to get to it; lettuce did fair, onions were a flop.
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Post by oldmobie on Sept 11, 2014 19:56:51 GMT -5
Mobie, how many panels do you have together in your pic, four? It appears that you butted them all together with no space in between, right? I allowed space because I planted lettuce and green onions through the middle and had to be able to get to it; lettuce did fair, onions were a flop. Yes there are four. From north to south, that garden is about two railroad ties long, or 16'. Four adjacent panels made a pretty good fit. Wish we'd been able to leave a walkway, but we didn't have cash for more timbers and wood chips. Maybe in the future. The portion of the garden on the west, nearest the camera, was already built. We wanted to expand, but we were up against a sidewalk we didn't want to break up. So we built the "tunnel" to span it, then built the east part of the garden. The plan was picking beans standing up, in the shade. It hasn't entirely worked out that way, but maybe with the right plants, it will. |
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Post by flowerweaver on Sept 11, 2014 20:41:50 GMT -5
 Here's a bean trellis I built out of cedar 15 years ago. I still use two of them for Lima beans. I love these trellises, but on a larger scale they are not practical to build.  Here's an early season photo of my pole beans. This year expanding to develop a landrace we put up this 8 foot tall trellis with T-posts and plastic netting, which came down in the tornado. Next year I will go with metal mesh to make it stronger and to be able to torch the spent vines off at end of season (someone here gave me the better idea). |
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Sept 11, 2014 22:45:58 GMT -5
I never would have imagined when I started landrace gardening that my peer group would also shift. Each week a troupe of gypsies enlivens my spot at the farmer's market by stopping and chatting. The brightest colors in my entire wardrobe are duller than even the tamest color among them. I collect weeds for a medicine woman. She makes tea for me. A shaman gets tobacco for use in sacred rituals. Ladies and guys come up and hug me in greeting. A tarot reader asked to swap for tomatoes. A family in an archetypical hippy van stops from time to time at the field. My vegetables traveled to the most recent Rainbow Family Gathering. A druid grows my melon seeds. These types of associations are about as far removed from my stuffy/formal Mormon upbringing as I can imagine. They are delightful to me.
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Post by steev on Sept 11, 2014 23:03:45 GMT -5
Having doped out how to build my movable poultry runs, this thread is making me start to think how I might be able to shade them with beans: so much more productive than shade cloth; doing more, with less, in less space; that's my mission. I'm thinking two runs, one being planted to beans outside, to grow up for shade, and some chook fodder inside, into which the ravening hordes can be put, while the other is being planted and growing, or shade-clothed as the season dictates. I think this has promise of both great efficiency and productivity, on a small scale (well, I'm working on the development of a one-man monastery, sufficiency-wise, I suppose; not under a vow of silence, though I only talk to myself, mostly, on the farm: sometimes the voices in my head have good ideas).
Joseph: just read your recent post; cultural diversity, like genetic diversity, is a wonderful thing, strengthening those capable of receiving it. I think that's the whole point of democracy. If we, as a species, have any advantage biologically, it's that we can learn culturally, rather than only genetically; some of our cousins: chimpanzees, bonoboes, and Japanese gibbons, also show some capacity for this, but we are the BEST! No other species comes even close to our ability to say "that's a good idea; I'll take it".
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