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Post by ilex on Nov 28, 2014 22:51:06 GMT -5
Very little of the tropical adapted corn can be grown in temperate climates without first making a cross to a temperate adapted variety. Andean races in particular are difficult. I agree that you will see a significant increase in diversity, but suspect ongoing selection will rapidly narrow the genetics in your composite. Some of that work was done centuries ago when corn made it to Europe. For example, most of these are supposed to come from Caribean and Andean corns: Local corn varieties in Cantabria (Spain) [pdf] Cantabria has an oceanic climate, cool, humid, with lots of mountains, and many microclimates Maybe like coastal Washington? |
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Dec 17, 2014 20:34:33 GMT -5
Last spring I planted a row of the South American Synthetic Composite corn inside the Astronomy Domine Sweet corn patch, and detasseled the South American corn in order to make an F1 hybrid. The AD was severely damaged by skunks. The South American corns were mostly resistant. I saved seed ear-to-packet, so that I can plant sibling groups next spring. The general population. F1: [South American Synthetic Composite X Astronomy Domine]  The Cateto Sulino Cross. I planted more of these, because I am very interested in bringing that deep orange (high carotene) color into my sweet corn. F1: [Cargill's Cateto Sulino X Astronomy Domine]. I sorted the kernels, selecting the deepest orange kernels for replanting.  |
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Post by reed on Dec 18, 2014 4:07:50 GMT -5
Joseph, what do you think made the difference for the skunks? Did they just prefer the AD or was it that the other had ears higher up and they couldn't reach? What do you mean by "rat selected". Just that they like and chew on it? Or is it softness related to the amount of flint vs flour.
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Dec 18, 2014 12:12:17 GMT -5
reed: The cobs on the South American corn averaged about 5 feet off the ground. Astronomy Domine was closer to 3 feet. I figure that made most of the difference. Perhaps sturdiness of the stalks played a role, but I didn't measure that... "Rat Selected" is my way of honoring Fred Ashworth who created the variety of corn that carries his last name, because the story is told that rodents got into his corn crib and carried off the best kernels to store in their nests, and he retrieved the kernels to come up with such a glorious corn. Because the rodents know what tastes good. In the case of the South American corn, I presume that the ones the mice preferred have a soft or thin pericarp and very soft interior starch so that they could easily chew into it. There were many hundreds of cobs to choose from. Why take those two? They also took two other cobs, but I suppose that they took those because of karma... I didn't like them, therefore they became fair game. They ate the kernels completely down to the core. The kernels were about the size of a spinach seed. The cobs were about the size of my thumb.
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Post by steev on Dec 18, 2014 19:17:29 GMT -5
Aww! Teeny wittle mousie corn, so precious.
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Post by RpR on Dec 21, 2014 1:53:25 GMT -5
In the case of the South American corn, I presume that the ones the mice preferred have a soft or thin pericarp and very soft interior starch so that they could easily chew into it. Now I do not know but last winter, I had a more corn cobs for bundle displays than I had displays. They are all fed to the squirrels eventually but the display bundles stay on the house till put out for the squirrels and the excess tied display bundles were out side, five feet off of the ground, piled in a stack of plastic lawn chairs in a corner of the porch. When spring started to arrive, I still had quite a few so I thought I would let the squirrels pig out. Now the dent corn types were on top and and some flint and sweet corn types on the bottom. I grabbed the whole pile, about six or seven remaining three cob each bundles. Well when I picked them all up, the two bottom bundles were nothing but empty cobs, these were large not small ears, with a pile of corn kernel dust on the bottom of the chair from their, or his, piggy eating habits. Now maybe it was because they could sit semi-protected from the weather in the chair and pig-out before taking extra kernels home but how hard the kernels were did not seem to be much of a concern to them. |
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Post by reed on Dec 21, 2014 4:46:57 GMT -5
We had three ears hanging on the mail box before Thanksgiving. Two of them were chewed on a little bit and the other one is just a clean cob. Probably depends on what is doing the chewing, I suspect mice did this or those little brown Chipmunk critters. Whatever it was had equal access to the three ears.
Coons are the biggest critter problem here on growing corn. It makes good sense that even if they do have preferences on taste or whatever that the higher off the ground the ears are is probably better. That and good strong stalks that won't break or fall over if they try to climb.
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Post by blueadzuki on Dec 21, 2014 7:47:10 GMT -5
It's usually chipmunks and or squirrels outside; mice and or rats inside (unless your house is so open that squirrels and chipmunks getting inside is a common occurrence.)
Then answer is sort of in between the two. The rodent culprits DO have preferences, but given time and a lack of alternatives, will EVENTUALLY eat everything. When I am cleaning up from the "assaults" on my corn patch I've noticed there is a pattern to damage. Hard, flinty kernels are often simply turned into "toenails"(kernels with the germ portion gnawed out) and left on the ground. Soft starch kernels tend to be more or less totally eaten, leaving only wisps of pericarp on the soil. However if no further corn is provided the critters will eventually return and eat the "toenails" as well.
I think part of it may be than I don't think chipmunk's or the other rodents can (or at least prefer not to) chew up the thick hard starch of a flint corn kernel's top when it is dry. But if it is left outside and the rain and other moisture (or if they missed it in the first run, the germinating enzymes) soften that starch, it becomes attractive for them again. On those occasions when I have seen corn kernels damaged by mice inside in places where such wetting never occurs (say on ears I left on shelves in the basement, or kernels that fell under radiators and didn't get recovered at the time the mice tend to never go beyond step 1, the germ is chewed out, and the rest of the dry kernel is left for good.
I tend to think the chipmunks are the greater of the contributors to the damage on the grounds that 1. I've actually CAUGHT chipmunks digging up and eating my corn and 2. While there are occasional examples each year of corn plants sprouting in odd places due to a squirrel "caching" them, it seems to me that, given the amounts of corn involved, if the squirrels were really involved, given how bad they are at remembering where their caches are, there'd be a LOT more of such clumps. also I almost always only see the clumps when I have tossed out the Andean stuff, where the squirrels have the advantage due to their size (Andean corn kernels are so big I'm not sure a chipmunk or mouse has the mouth size to feasibly carry them away; if they want to eat it, they sort of have to in situ.)
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Post by castanea on Dec 28, 2014 13:34:05 GMT -5
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Post by blueadzuki on Dec 28, 2014 14:26:01 GMT -5
I simply assumed that was a sort of "stock photo". As far as I know The only Peruvian corns they are currently offering are the ones in the Explorer series, which are, by and large, a lot less colorful (they more closely resemble the retail Peruvian corn, all white and yellow.)
That being said, thanks to my local bodega I do have a quantity of corn that resembles what is in the photo. I sent some of the commoner color to flowerweaver earlier this year to see if her season was long enough to actually get it to grow (one of the big problems with Peruvian corn up here, of course is how ridiculously long a season it needs. I suspect that that means that, even if Bakr Creek does have any of the more colorful material, it may never get out to the general public, since I have doubts that they will want to offer seed that will not grow well for ANY of their clientele). Most of the rest I'm more or less holding until we see the results of that. However, given your zone if you are interested in trying it, are somewhere where I can send seed without having to worry about customs confiscating it. and are willing to abide by the same rules. You get a selection of the commoner colors first and if they grow THEN you get the scarcer ones. I don't think she or I would have any issues with having another person trying at the same time. PM me if this arrangement is acceptable to you.
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Post by castanea on Dec 28, 2014 21:17:46 GMT -5
My recollection was that it was not a stock photo, but my recollection has been wrong before. I can't find either of their two seed catalogs but that's probably where I saw the photo or maybe it was in their Heirloom Gardener magazine.
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Post by blueadzuki on Dec 29, 2014 7:14:46 GMT -5
Actually yes, I think that is EXACTLY where the picture came from (I subscribe to the magazine as well)
Actually I think I rememeber where. It was in the article a year or so ago on the slow food pavilion somewhere in Italy (the one whose tail end marked the "discovery" of the orange berried Solanum nigrum.
And by "stock" I didn't necessarily mean a real stock photo, just that the photo may not correspond to any seed they actually acquired, or are planning to sell.
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Post by flowerweaver on Dec 29, 2014 12:58:57 GMT -5
Baker Creek has a photo header online for the sale of their corn seed which displays presumably Andean corns they do not sell. I'm not sure what the thought on this kind of image usage is, since it doesn't represent their offerings. Perhaps they just want to show there's more diversity out there. www.rareseeds.com/store/vegetables/corn/ |
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Post by castanea on Jan 21, 2015 23:13:06 GMT -5
Here's a Baker Creek photo:  |
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Jun 3, 2015 19:45:48 GMT -5
I weeded the North X South flour corn patch today. I planted much of the crop as sibling groups (cob-to-row), so if I saw a sibling group that wasn't growing well, I chopped it out. I also culled slow growing plants from the bulk rows.
Chop. Chop. Chop!
About a month ago I planted F2 sweet corn seed from the cross [Cateto X LISP Ashworth]. The kernels had been selected for high carotene. Some of the sibling groups had low germination, but others are growing great. I also weeded them today, but didn't cull. The seed is currently too precious to me.
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