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Post by gilbert on Mar 20, 2016 18:54:16 GMT -5
So, I'm trying to figure out what color of plastic sheet would best suit the potato towers. Not only will the plastic determine the soil temperature, but with layered towers, it will reflect light against the leaves. It will also determine how much air and water exchange there is. Will it block too much airflow? I'm guessing that in my case, too much airflow will be a problem. I could try a tower with landscape fabric, as a sort of halfway between the straw towers and plastic warped ones.
From the extension service. So maybe in my Colorado climate metalized silver would be the way to go. For sweet potatoes, black would be better, I'm sure.
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Post by gilbert on Mar 20, 2016 18:59:44 GMT -5
Before I plunge into the deep end with the breeding phase of this project, I want to make sure that the layering trait is not present in current potato varieties. That means a LOT of trialing. I also need to trial the individual TPS plants as the breeding gets underway.
I had thought of building individual towers out of 5 gallon buckets for each plant. That seems like a sub optimal solution, since a small volume container will have huge heat and temp. fluctuations. Putting multiple varieties in a tower will make even hilling difficult, and evaluation difficult as well.
So I have decided to combine the two approaches in one tower. (I will be building many different kinds of tower, but this will be the evaluation tower.)
I will have a base, full of rich soil for the potato roots to grow in, with the different varieties planted just below the surface. Then, over each, will go a bottomless bucket. As they grow, the buckets will be filled with mulch, while the inter bucket space will also be filled, and the tower sides (plastic sheet and wire mesh) raised. That should allow me to trial lots of varieties with the minimum amount of tower construction.
Thoughts?
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Post by oldmobie on Mar 20, 2016 19:28:52 GMT -5
I will have a base, full of rich soil for the potato roots to grow in, with the different varieties planted just below the surface. Then, over each, will go a bottomless bucket. As they grow, the buckets will be filled with mulch, while the inter bucket space will also be filled, and the tower sides (plastic sheet and wire mesh) raised. That should allow me to trial lots of varieties with the minimum amount of tower construction. Thoughts? I'm not sure about filling the buckets with mulch. Would soil be better? (I don't say this from experience, but it seems like I read it somewhere.) If there's any doubt, maybe try both methods side by side for comparison? Otherwise, I like your idea of a common soil base for multiple towers. Also I think filling the space between buckets will lend some mechanical and temperature stabilization. That should reduce two of your potential problems.
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Post by nathanp on Mar 20, 2016 21:02:10 GMT -5
Yes - Don't use mulch, straw or wood chips for your fill material. Potatoes will not tuberize if the material is not dense enough, and their is too much air content. They will tuberize under those materials, but not in them. Compost is ok if it is nearly done composting. If it is still composting too much, that creates extra heat, which can be bad.
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Post by paquebot on Mar 20, 2016 22:29:16 GMT -5
I am growing Ozette for the first time this year. It's genetics are interesting. Brought by the Spanish to the Pacific Northwest, it is very different genetically than commercial US/European potatoes. Same with Johnny Gunter, Doty Todd and a few others that were traditional native american varieties. I've I've grown Ozette for past 3 seasons. Lots of vine and lots of production. Tubers set in wide radius from the plant. Excellent storage as those dug last September are just starting to sprout now. White skin and very white flesh makes them great for boiling or frying. Planning on 20 hills this year. Martin
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Post by gilbert on Mar 20, 2016 22:39:17 GMT -5
As far as mulch over the tubers: here is a quote from Martin:
But I agree that it is worth a side by side test.
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Post by gilbert on Mar 20, 2016 22:40:29 GMT -5
OK, so what about sawdust as filler?
My main goal is to find something cheaper then compost or potting soil.
(A dry climate makes composting difficult.)
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Post by gilbert on Mar 20, 2016 23:06:48 GMT -5
Somebody on the Kenosha project facebook page said that rotted wood chips far outperformed straw, as far as a mulch topping for potato containers.
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Post by paquebot on Mar 21, 2016 9:20:41 GMT -5
A mulch that I started pushing years ago is shredded pine boughs. Have to think ahead as they are available in great quantity about the first week or January. Of course, ex-Christmas trees. Strip them down and run the boughs through a bagging/mulching mower 3 times and the result looks like green sawdust. Mixed with about half ordinary soil, it's excellent for tubers to form in a scab-free medium. Due to its C:N ratio, it takes awhile to break down and the wood portion retains moisture once it has become wet. Don't use ground-up Christmas trees as the material will be too coarse since the trunks are also included.
Martin
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Post by reed on Mar 21, 2016 10:35:05 GMT -5
Maybe it is just me but anytime I have used anything that wasn't mostly just dirt with maybe some partially composted garden debris from the year before my potatoes have an odd flavor. I like burying corn stalks in the fall and then digging holes to drop the taters in next spring but I fill back in with just dirt. I lay the part rotted stalks that came out of the holes back on top, there are plenty more still in the trench but the immediate area around each tuber is just dirt. I have got bigger potatoes in a more loose compost situation but they just don't taste right.
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Post by gilbert on Mar 21, 2016 10:57:27 GMT -5
Hi reed,
Interesting observation, I will keep that in mind. I wonder if a peat based potting mix would count as soil or as "other?"
The main problem I'm facing here is that I have a limited budget and hundreds of experiments to try. My native soil is a heavy, sticky, clay, not very usable for this project. I mix my own potting soil from sand, peat, perlite, and compost, but it is quite expensive.
I've got mountains of aged wood chips from last year, that contain quite a bit of leaves and dirt. I'm thinking that if I piled them again for a few weeks with some extra nitrogen, it would speed the breakdown.
Am I correct in thinking that the Kenosha people use a wood product of some sort for potato mulching/ hilling?
I saw a video of a very productive barrel being dumped which was 75 percent saw dust, 25 percent sand.
Seems like I would need hundreds of towers due to all the variables. Let's say I wanted to test ten varieties. I would want to test each in layered and non-layered towers. There are several styles of each. Then there are many different types of soil and fertilizer that could be used in each tower style. With ten varieties, six tower styles, and three mulching materials, I would need 180 towers. And there are a lot more variables then that. There is the color of plastic used on the towers. There is the fertilization regime. There are many more potato varieties. And there are sweet potatoes and yams and groundnuts!
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Post by nathanp on Mar 21, 2016 11:26:37 GMT -5
Gilbert - read Curzio's notes on bag colors. He's tried that one already and determined one color works best. That may save you some time and experimenting.
There are two different questions being discussed here.
1 - what can you use to hill 2 - what can you use as a growing medium
Generally, you can use anything to hill with. Mulch, sawdust, leaves, straw, wood chips, etc. If it will decompose, it will cover tubers that are forming underneath the mulch.
For growing medium, this is a completely different question. In order for it to form tubers in whatever your growing medium is, it must not have much air in it. So straw is out, leaves are out. Peat just clumps up if you don't blend it with soil or something else. Mulch would need to be very composted. A peat based potting soil probably would be ok. I have used sawdust, but not pure sawdust. I have blended it with soil and compost and it seemed to work ok.
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Post by gilbert on Mar 21, 2016 13:42:46 GMT -5
Hi Nathan,
I went through the Kenosha project website and searched their facebook page, but didn't find the information. I found Curzio talking about testing different colors in one video, but no results listed.
Also, do you think the color conclusions he draws would be relevant to Colorado, or not?
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Post by nathanp on Mar 21, 2016 20:40:25 GMT -5
Just asked him now.
He says the colors may not be relevant, or at least not very relevant. His is trying black bags with his extra early varieties this year to see if helps warm the soil more quickly. I would imagine if the sides of the bags are not exposed to direct sun, it is irrelevant. If they are spaced out enough to the sides are exposed, it may matter.
I'm not sure how different your summer heat is compared to Wisconsin's.
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Post by gilbert on Mar 22, 2016 0:02:06 GMT -5
We have cooler nights and possibly days the Wisconsin, but with a stronger, more intense sun despite the cool air. (Lack of atmosphere. Denver is a little like Mars. Hot during the day, cold at night, lack of water, lack of soil, thin atmosphere, high UV radiation.) I'm thinking that I might try white for classic towers and black for layered ones that will be covered with leaves.
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