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Post by diane on Jan 7, 2016 23:25:17 GMT -5
Oh, I was wanting advice for what to buy.
I've been hammering my Double Red Sweet from Peace Seeds, but so far they're all pale inside.
I guess "Double Red" doesn't mean red inside and outside.
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Post by DarJones on Jan 8, 2016 5:50:23 GMT -5
I have grown and stored white, yellow, and red corn the same year, then planted the kernels 15 years later and only the red corn was viable. I got about 50% germination from Bloody Butcher and zero from the others.
I can point at the correct genetics and shortcut a lot of this discussion. I have Maize Morado has the right genes to produce purple interior corn. It should be possible to cross it with popcorn so long as I don't use a variety with the "g" (pollen exclusion) gene.
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Post by diane on Jan 8, 2016 17:40:09 GMT -5
Joseph sliced off part of a cob of Astronomy Domine, and the endosperm of the purple kernels look pale blue. alanbishop.proboards.com/thread/8202/south-american-synthetic-composite-descendants?page=3I've looked in the Canadian equivalent of GRIN, which offers code numbers for four corn endosperm colours: white, pale yellow, yellow, orange but doesn't have any accessions for them. or, maybe they do, but nobody looked at the endosperm. I am trying for a non-destructive way to get a look at the endosperm. Because of my cool maritime conditions, I pre-sprout almost everything - corn, beans, squash, melons. Maybe if I soak corn seeds that I think may have a chance of having coloured endosperm, I could then peel them and if they were coloured, I could let them go on to sprout and grow. |
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Post by blueadzuki on Jan 8, 2016 19:26:18 GMT -5
That's actually just and effect of the aluerone color bleeding over into the endosperm (it's wet corn, remember) what we are looking for is a little different.
The main problem with the peel thing is that when you peel a kernel, the aleurone stays mostly with the kernel, not the pericarp (I often peel kernels to get a peek inside when the pericarp color is blocking my vision. You can sort of scratch it off with your fingernail, but it can be hard to tell when you've gotten all the way through without making an actual divot. Soaking will however make the cutting a little easier (since the corn will have some flexibility).
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Post by diane on Jan 8, 2016 20:15:20 GMT -5
I'll practise on red kernels I have a lot of. I think the endosperm should accept dye since it is a starch. If the aleurone is waterproof, then maybe I could drip a bit of ink or food colouring on so I can tell if I have reached the endosperm. Enough mess, and maybe I'll be good enough to know what I'm doing.
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Post by blueadzuki on Jan 8, 2016 20:46:38 GMT -5
Better idea; use iodine since that will actually change color as it contacts starch (it will go from brown to blue-black)
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andyb
gardener
Posts: 179
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Post by andyb on Jan 19, 2016 0:30:00 GMT -5
Yeah that's morado, that's how they package it That "giant one" is Cuzco Gigante. It'll grow too provided it's untreated (it's sold both raw and pre-nixamatized). It technically comes in colors other than dead white, but they are even rarer than they are for the huycatay (the "mountain" Andean corn we are mostly taking about). Inspired by blueadzuki, I dropped by a Mexican market today and looked at their bags of corn and beans. They had several Andean corns, including Cuzco Gigante and Maiz Morado. When I got home, I did some googling and found the same brand of corn, Peru Food, is available from everyone's favorite online mega-merchant. There are a few other brands to choose from as well. |
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Post by steev on Jan 19, 2016 2:39:45 GMT -5
Oooh! It really is a world-market.
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Post by diane on Jan 20, 2016 22:56:09 GMT -5
Carol Deppe's seedlist has just come out, and here is the description of Cascade Ruby-Gold which I grew last year.
It has orange flinty endosperm, and clear aleurone. It varies for pericarp colors
So, I can begin. Cross it with a popcorn - maybe that one that is supposed to taste like butter - and I'll have orange popcorn.
Purple will be a bit more difficult.
I have my Vancouver children looking for packets of Peru Food corn. There are several Peruvian restaurants in Vancouver, so there should be some.
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Post by diane on Jan 21, 2016 1:29:29 GMT -5
60 years ago when I was taking a genetics course, the instructor grew various corn types to use in the course. He showed me a mutant catalogue from which he bought his seeds.
I haven't noticed corn being grown at the university in recent times, though. I wonder if there is still such a seed catalogue.
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Post by blueadzuki on Jan 21, 2016 7:09:56 GMT -5
Fair warning, it's going to be long odds for the purple if you are using the Peru Foods method. Some of the purple I have found DID come that way, but the handful I got is the result of going through literally HUNDREDS of bags over the years. The odds of finding a bag with even ONE non white/yellow kernel are pretty slim. That's one of the reasons I was so excited when I found the bodega near me that sold these corns by the scoop out of a bin; the stuff in the sacks they filled the bin from had a somewhat higher colored count. Plus, of course, the fact that it was a bin meant I could hunt around a little and skew my purchase in favor of color by filling my bag one tiny nip, or often one kernel, at a time (I still remember one day when the count was actually high enough that I didn't need to add any "ordinary" yellow kernels in to bulk it out to a purchasable size. The checkout person actually had to ask me what was in the bag, since it no longer resembled the product they sold.) But that avenue is closed now (the bin is still there, but I think they must now fill it from the same pre filled sacks they sell downstairs, and the colored count has gone down catastrophically.)
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Post by diane on Jan 21, 2016 13:27:46 GMT -5
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andyb
gardener
Posts: 179
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Post by andyb on Jan 21, 2016 14:45:16 GMT -5
Definitely dried, and really pretty striking in how much pigment is in both the kernels and cobs. |
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Post by blueadzuki on Jan 21, 2016 15:13:11 GMT -5
Seeing the picture on the site, I can now say, do NOT get the Cuzo (a.ka. the "Maiz Mote") from here. it is very obviously PRE-NIXIMATIZED Cuzco, and hence, sterile.
To save some time, the "chulpe" is andean sweetcorn kernels. And yes, you can sometimes fined colored sweet kernels too (usually lightly red blushed), but they are on that same super rare level as the colored Cuzco.
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Post by blueadzuki on Jan 22, 2016 21:16:14 GMT -5
Okay I got my hands on a bag of Cuzco (I forgot the bin of non treated corn was removed some time ago.) Looks like the brand you need to keep your eyes out for is called Del Campo.
Speaking of bins, looks like they have added one. There is now a bin of large green skinned fava beans, of which I took a sample. By and large they are not all that interesting vis a vis variation. There are a few beans that have alternate hilum colors (in this case black is the normal, green the minor) But I have seen that so often I no longer really think that uniform hilum color is considered an important trait in favas. But I did manage to find one seed that truly is distinctive. After some sorting I found ONE large green fava that clearly has the "god's eye" trait (that thumbprint shaped mottling you see on some favas like stone ear in the Explorer series.)
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