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Post by raymondo on Jan 19, 2016 16:57:52 GMT -5
My interest in pea breeding was sparked by Rebsie's wonderful red-podded pea, as was templeton's I'm guessing. T moved ahead quickly and is well on the way with yellows, reds and purples. I'm slower and I've now decided to focus on just a yellow podded snow and snap line. I prefer climbing or at least semi-dwarf peas so that's what I'm aiming for. I would also like powdery mildew resistance but living in a dryish climate it's not really an issue but it would help those living in more humid climes. I'd like two pods per node too. I grew out some peas for T a few years back and got a nice, climbing yellow-podded pea that set two pods per node. That's my base. I crossed it with Oregon Giant and will grow out the F2 from that cross next spring. I'll use something from these F2s (or the next generation if I don't find what I want) and backcross to Oregon Giant until I get what I want in a snow pea and backcross to Cascadia until I get what I want in a snap. I'll continue to try different snows and snaps and should I find any that I like better than Oregon Giant or Cascadia I'll switch to those.
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Post by templeton on Jan 19, 2016 17:36:16 GMT -5
I think I have you and the cross-hemisphere dwarf tomato project to thank for my breeding obsession, raymondo. To add a bit of background, from memory the yellow snow growouts Ray did for me came from some crosses of Golden Podded (=Golden Sweet) X Oregon Spring. I haven't been able to find info on OS. The OS seed came to me from an American woman now living in Australia, that I correspond with through an Australian gardening forum. She offered the seed after my request for a double flowered snow as a parent following my initial scattergun approach. I offered the crosses as a community-based breeding project on the Ozgrow Forum, but found it a bit too difficult to manage the record keeping and juggle the staggered growout generations, with growers from temperate, continental and subtropical regions all having different growing windows. A further complication was the differences in record keeping between growers. It's a pleasure to see this line now being progressed. I look forward to progress reports, Ray. I suspect your dilligent approach will yield superior cultivars. And don't give up on the coloureds, Ray, there is much improvement required. T t
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Post by raymondo on Jan 19, 2016 19:34:54 GMT -5
... And don't give up on the coloureds, Ray, there is much improvement required. T I won't give up. They'll just take a back seat for a while. I have other projects on the go and a few more I'd like to start. I'm in no hurry.
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Post by steve1 on Jan 21, 2016 5:01:45 GMT -5
raymondo My 2 cents worth is to work on a good yellow and purple and the resultant red will be superior...
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Post by raymondo on Jan 21, 2016 6:15:10 GMT -5
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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on Jan 21, 2016 18:03:50 GMT -5
Yes, good advice steve1. I'm excited to work more on improved yellow podded varieties too. Golden "Sweet" was the first i had and it was a charming variety, but i abandoned it because i had assumed Opal Creek Snap would be a superior variety. Although it had nice flat yellow pods that really stood out. In some ways Opal Creek is better, but it has some problems. First, the yellow color is somewhat washed-out. I'm not sure if that happens in all yellow snap peas or not, but it's somewhat a waste of the yellow color genes in my opinion. Second, the flowers are tiny and extremely tightly wrapped (presumably because of some strange receccive gene in the flowers), which makes them extremely difficult to cross. I attempted many crosses with it this season anyway, but i expect a higher rate of failure with those crosses than with other peas. That is why i am particularly excited to work with the yellow snow pea that segregated out of Joseph's red podded project this next season. I already have high hopes that it will be an improvement over Golden "sweet", and it appeared to have the "pulverize-to-dust" trait in the pods. So far i'm of the opinion that yellow snow peas will be better for color than yellow snap peas.
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Post by philagardener on Jan 21, 2016 19:06:39 GMT -5
I'll add that Opal Creek pods seemed pretty small for me when I grew them out.
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Post by diane on Jan 21, 2016 20:30:50 GMT -5
I wonder if either Opal Creek or Golden Sweet vary much. Would it be worthwhile buying Golden Sweet from a number of different locations (maybe different countries) to compare them.
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Post by steve1 on Jan 21, 2016 21:30:37 GMT -5
keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) - I'm interested in your definition of washed out, as almost all my yellow lines (both snow and snap) go green towards full maturity due to endocarp chlorophyll rising to green pod levels as seed starts to mature. Is that what you mean or just dull yellow? Pulverize to dust is a very good thing...
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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on Jan 21, 2016 22:47:16 GMT -5
keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) - I'm interested in your definition of washed out, as almost all my yellow lines (both snow and snap) go green towards full maturity due to endocarp chlorophyll rising to green pod levels as seed starts to mature. Is that what you mean or just dull yellow? Pulverize to dust is a very good thing... hmm.. well it's probably somewhat subjective. What i can say is that I've been able to notice a difference in yellow darkness between a flat non-inflated pea like Golden Sweet vs Opal Creek during mid pod growth. I can't necessarily comment on when they are fully mature as i think you may be right that all peas somewhat loose their color as the seeds mature. What i'm referring to is perhaps just a greater concentration of the yellow pigments in flat pods versus juicy pods like a snap pea. Perhaps there is just more area in a snap pea for the pigments to become "diluted" by more water or whatever. Hopefully i made sense. It might not be that noticeable to most people, but it has been to me. I'll try to pay more attention though in coming seasons. I can't say that I've noticed any chlorophyll concentration in yellow pods though. it's kind of like taking a balloon. when not inflated it is dark and has a concentration of color. When stretched out it becomes somewhat diluted by the more surface area and more light shining through. It may be different between various snow pea varieties though as i think a few months back we were discussing inflated snow peas vs non-inflated snow peas, etc.
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Post by philagardener on Jan 22, 2016 18:26:17 GMT -5
I think the thicker pods may also scatter light internally, contributing to the washed out appearance.
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Post by steve1 on Jan 24, 2016 7:15:45 GMT -5
keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) I'm seeing what you mean now. Out of the 14 or so lines of golden snaps growing currently - the 6 I have in young pod are pale. Except for the over mature pods that are light greenish. Nothing is ever simple. Does anyone know whether the yellow pod pigment is a carotenoid? philagardener you might well be right.
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Post by diane on Jan 24, 2016 16:10:29 GMT -5
I've just sorted the Golden Sweet seeds I bought a couple of years ago from Jim Ternier at Prairie Garden Seeds.
I'm going to grow the different coloured seeds separately to see if there will also be a difference in pod colour.
The seeds are dark brown, medium reddish-brown, medium tan with speckles, pale tan with speckles.
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Post by templeton on Jan 24, 2016 17:07:18 GMT -5
steve1, how are you still getting peas? All of mine are long finished. But of the mature pods I harvested a few weeks ago, there were certainly greenish tinges on the not completely dried ones, from a ggXgg = fully yellow cross.
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Post by steve1 on Jan 25, 2016 0:15:31 GMT -5
templeton , I've been picking as they reach maturity to keep senescence at bay. These lines are all pretty heat tolerant too. 42'c poses no problem. The outside ones are grown under 70% shade and irrigated frequently. The yellow pods get a green tinge as the endocarp chlorophyll reaches green pod levels at seed maturity. Haven't seen a line that doesn't do that yet, you? Can post the paper reference if you like. Also, the paper has some cool transmission electron microscopy in it too...
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