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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on Oct 1, 2016 3:50:25 GMT -5
Hello all,
We harvested a decent amount of black walnuts this week. I ate a few, they really weren't that bad. I expected that weird flavor, but i didn't notice it this time. But they are somewhat hard to get out of the shell. But Black Walnut trees are very fast growing trees. What i think i'd like is some walnut hybrids. Ideally black walnut - english walnit hybrid, but others might be good too. I just leaned that butternut is apparently a "white walnut". Since they are native to the east coast that's probably why they are unknown to me. But i think in a magazine we got a few weeks ago had a butternut - heartnut hybrid (i dont know if i remembered that correctly), which sounded interesting.
Anyone have access to a black walnut english walnut hybrid?
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Post by Walk on Oct 1, 2016 13:29:41 GMT -5
Hello all, We harvested a decent amount of black walnuts this week. I ate a few, they really weren't that bad. I expected that weird flavor, but i didn't notice it this time. But they are somewhat hard to get out of the shell. But Black Walnut trees are very fast growing trees. What i think i'd like is some walnut hybrids. Ideally black walnut - english walnit hybrid, but others might be good too. I just leaned that butternut is apparently a "white walnut". Since they are native to the east coast that's probably why they are unknown to me. But i think in a magazine we got a few weeks ago had a butternut - heartnut hybrid (i dont know if i remembered that correctly), which sounded interesting. Anyone have access to a black walnut english walnut hybrid? The "trick" to shelling black walnuts is to wait a year. The nuts keep well in the shell for at least 2 years so if you wait until a year after harvest to begin shelling them for use, they will shell out "easier" (I learned this from 2 different sources - both "old-timers"). Having a compound leverage cracker doesn't hurt either, but even with this tool shelling still takes a bit of time for 2 reasons. First, you need to sort through the cracked pieces to separate the nut meats from the shells. Second, there remains a good portion of shells with nut meats left inside. Rather than trying to re-crack these pieces or dig at them with a pick, it is easier and quicker to use a wire "snips" to cut the shells to release any trapped nut pieces. A strategically placed cut can make the nuts pop right out. Black walnuts do have a distinctive flavor that some folks don't like. Kind of like cilantro in that regard. We like the flavor and have found that it works well in savory dishes with curry as well as the usual dessert recipes. English walnuts, which don't grow in Minnesota, taste bland to us after many years of eating our native nuts. As for butternuts, they will also store for 2 years or more in the shell and with their papery husks still attached. Unlike black walnuts they are easier to crack and a pick will usually pop out any stuck pieces of nut. The nuts are like butter in that they are very oily and soft. Around here a blight has killed off most of the native trees. They are a true delight to eat and make the best nut "milk" of any nut we've used. |
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Post by prairiegarden on Oct 1, 2016 15:19:56 GMT -5
Don't know about the US undoubtedly someone does, there are lots of people doing interesting stuff with chestnuts and hazelnuts, I don't know about walnuts. The butternut/heart it cross is called a buartnut here. Butternuts are considered endangered, I got some and they were growing really well but something..probably deer or moose, but maybe just gophers, those destroyed my chestnuts..took them out the first winter. Haven't replaced them as they are marginally hardy here and the best location I have for them is too far away to monitor adequately.
There is apparently some interesting work being done with hardy pecans as well. Grimonut.com has walnut crosses, not sure if they sell into the U.S. or not, if so, with the dollar what it is, they'd be cheap and their trees were great.
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Post by philagardener on Oct 1, 2016 19:34:05 GMT -5
The "trick" to shelling black walnuts is to wait a year. The nuts keep well in the shell for at least 2 years so if you wait until a year after harvest to begin shelling them for use, they will shell out "easier" (I learned this from 2 different sources - both "old-timers"). Interesting idea, Walk . Do you store the nuts at room temp? Freeze treat or anything else to prevent insect problems? |
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Post by reed on Oct 1, 2016 22:21:46 GMT -5
Black walnuts are very common here. They come in a range of sizes. We collect them often still in the husk and dump them in the gravel drive way to clean them up. They keep two or three years at least at room temp, in the fridge or forgotten in the shed. I shell them with a hammer, strike them on the end to split the shell in half and then gently on the sides to crack it open. Black walnuts are the king of nuts, only thing those others have going is the easy open package, taste is awful. I might be prejudiced cause I grew up cracking walnuts for my mom and granny to make pies and cookies.
I'm not sure what a butter nut is but I knew of one tree that made larger oblong nuts that otherwise look just like black walnuts, its owners recently murdered it because it was messy in the yard and stained the drive, idiots! I have some growing, close to ten years old but they haven't made anything yet. The leaves and the familiar smell is the same as other walnuts.
We have lots of hardy pecans. They are very easy to grow. The biggest trees are in the little towns around here, people must have planted them a long time ago as some are very large. The nuts are not as big as southern pecans but taste much better, they also come in a range of sizes. I collect as many as I can and give them to the squirrels to plant, slowly doing what I can to replace the ash trees.
We were talking just today, it's time to visit our favorite nut trees and see what we can find, most don't produce every year.
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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on Oct 2, 2016 0:12:15 GMT -5
Interesting idea about the waiting a year. That's not so much why i'm interested in the hybrids, i'm actually willing to do the work, it's just because i prefer to get my chunks in more solid pieces, like the English walnuts (a genetic trait). And i agree about flavor. Apparently there are some new "red walnuts", not sure what they taste like. But i like the overall traits and hardiness of the Black Walnut. Joseph mentioned a walnut variety in some of his posts that i also had never heard about before, so i do wonder what those are like as well. As for taste, like i said i expected to taste that funky black walnut flavor that was in the black walnut icecream i had last, but surprisingly it wasn't there in the two fresh walnuts i cracked open, so that was nice.
There is a tree company in the UK selling two types of black walnut crosses that are probably exactly what i want. Problem is they are in the UK and i think they only sell large trees anyway. I tried sending them a message and asking if they could ship small trees and/or bags of nuts of the hybrids but the reply i got was to "Tel them" which i assume is short abbreviation for "please call us on the [tele] phone". I rarely call people as i hate talking on the phone as it is, let alone a long distance trans continental phone call. So that's out unless one of my UK friends is willing to make an inquiry on my behalf. (http://www.walnuttrees.co.uk/)
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Post by prairiegarden on Oct 2, 2016 0:53:23 GMT -5
I have a friend who has a nursery and lots of contacts in Britain. If you let me know exactly what you want to know I,m sure she'd do her best to find out.
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Post by steev on Oct 2, 2016 0:57:58 GMT -5
My personal preference is black walnuts, although it is clearly a matter of taste and willingness to work; no better ice-cream flavor ever, IMHO; chocolate-chip cookies to die for, as well.
I like Carpathian/English walnuts, but really, they're so "white bread".
We must make efforts to get things together relating to such useful/enjoyable trees.
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Post by Walk on Oct 2, 2016 8:17:14 GMT -5
The "trick" to shelling black walnuts is to wait a year. The nuts keep well in the shell for at least 2 years so if you wait until a year after harvest to begin shelling them for use, they will shell out "easier" (I learned this from 2 different sources - both "old-timers"). Interesting idea, Walk . Do you store the nuts at room temp? Freeze treat or anything else to prevent insect problems? The nuts are stored in wire baskets in our sauna which is tempered space but does deep freeze over winter (we remove them when we fire up the sauna). I've also stored them in metal garbage cans outside under a roof overhang. Any place to keep them dry and rodent-free. We have an old hand-cranked corn sheller to remove the husks. Even with this device, it's easier if you wait until the husks are getting brown and soft. There will usually be lots of little 1/4" white maggots in the husks at this stage but they don't get into the nuts. Around here the crows will gather in the trees to feast on the maggots. Our chickens like to pick through the husks too. BTW, the wait to shell strategy is not only easier, the pieces of nut are larger, quarters are common and sometimes halves. I usually sift the cracked nuts with an 1/8" screen to remove fines which I don't want to sort through, although this is really more of an issue with our local shagbark hickory (talk about a tough nut to crack). I can feed this sifted debris to the chickens to pick through or throw it in the woodstove, along with the shells, which burn nicely. |
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Post by Walk on Oct 2, 2016 8:37:35 GMT -5
I'm not sure what a butter nut is but I knew of one tree that made larger oblong nuts that otherwise look just like black walnuts, its owners recently murdered it because it was messy in the yard and stained the drive, idiots! I have some growing, close to ten years old but they haven't made anything yet. The leaves and the familiar smell is the same as other walnuts. Butternuts don't really smell like their black walnut cousins. They have husks that have a somewhat sticky, peach fuzz texture that is resinous, even when dry unlike hazelnuts. The husks don't stain either, although you can make a dye with them - a lighter brown than the black walnuts give. Hybrid hazelnuts and chestnuts are available from Badgersett. We have 40 hazelnut bushes that came from them and a couple of chestnuts. The hazels are quite productive but the chestnuts aren't doing so well here. We have enough production from the hazels to enjoy chopped, roasted nuts on our morning oatmeal year-round. Yum! |
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Post by blueadzuki on Oct 2, 2016 8:38:01 GMT -5
Assuming northern Colorado has a climate sort of similar to northern California, another possibility worth looking into is something called the Paradox walnut. This is a hybrid developed by Luther Burbank between the English walnut and Hind's walnut, a species or subspecies of the California Black walnut (there are actually a couple of different species of Black walnut across the country).One advantage of that is that, unlike pretty much all of the other black walnuts, the outer shell of a Hinds does NOT have those little ridges (it looks sort of like an over-sized hickory nut) so de-husking them thoroughly without staining your fingers black is a LOT easier (basically you can simply let the nuts dry until the skins go brown then remove the skins under running water while scrubbing them with a kitchen scrubbing sponge. I've tasted a Hinds and the taste is similar to a black, so I imagine a Paradox and a Black/English hybrid would taste similar too. One major caveat with this one though, you have to make sure you get a FERTILE paradox tree. Burbank designed the Paradox as a tree for civic planting, so the vast majority of them are sterile and produce neither flowers nor nuts (in essence, if you are looking for a Paradox for nuts, you are actually looking for a failure from the breeding program)
If you have the patience to grow a walnut tree to maturityfrom seed (or the grafting skill to take a seedling tree and graft it to a more mature root stock) there is a store in Chinatown I know of that sells walnuts that must have come from an orchard of many species, and some of those seem (based on the appearance of the nuts) to be hybrids between the English walnut and the Manchurian walnut, which is a sort of Chinese black walnut analog. I don't know if they still have them, but I could check.
And yeah, it is really hard to find a butternut tree (or at least a wild one, many catalogs sell seedlings) In fact I'm not sure I have EVER tasted one. I've been in places I know had to have had them (because I found empty shell halves on the ground) but the actual trees seem to be elusive. And I remember one of my Plant science teachers back in college basically saying what Walk had said, that most of the butternuts EVERYWHERE had succumbed to a blight, making native ones rare.)
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Post by philagardener on Oct 2, 2016 9:46:27 GMT -5
Interesting idea, Walk . Do you store the nuts at room temp? Freeze treat or anything else to prevent insect problems? The nuts are stored in wire baskets in our sauna which is tempered space but does deep freeze over winter (we remove them when we fire up the sauna). I've also stored them in metal garbage cans outside under a roof overhang. Any place to keep them dry and rodent-free. Sounds like a great justification for the sauna I have been putting off building . . .  |
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Post by khoomeizhi on Oct 12, 2016 18:03:08 GMT -5
not hybrid, but there are many cultivars of black walnut that have thinner shells, fewer crenellations in the shell and thus they crack out into fewer, larger pieces, etc. some are also spur-bearing and thus yield more per tree.
also, a full year is nice if you can wait that long, but maybe not fully necessary - black walnuts are usually considered fully cured and ready for longer storage at 4-6 weeks. by then, the nutmeats've already shrunk back enough from the shell that they don't shatter completely with cracking
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Post by blueadzuki on Oct 12, 2016 18:12:45 GMT -5
Note: I'm going to have to withdraw the offer for the Chinatown Walnuts. I went in there today and they no longer have the bin. With walnut prices in China skyrocketing to the point where they are being counterfeited (they take an empty shell and put a small rock inside to make it feel full) it just may be too expensive to sell them by the pound.
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Post by steev on Oct 12, 2016 22:36:00 GMT -5
That may explain the recent splurge of walnut-orchard planting: another export crop.
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