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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on Nov 24, 2017 6:05:02 GMT -5
Cool. It is entireley possible some or many of the F2 seed was not selfed or pollinated with other F1 pollen but was crossed by the active bumble bees with the other wild tomatoes (or domestic though less likeley).
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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on Jan 10, 2018 2:10:09 GMT -5
The F2 i'm growing indoors keeps seemingly to set fruit when i hand pollinate but later the fruits fall off. Perhaps Self-Incompatibility has been restored? Otherwise it may just be that it is indoors and wants to grow bigger but is restricted.  |
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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on Jan 10, 2018 12:30:06 GMT -5
Sounds like an incompatibility but if fruits start to form I wonder how far they get? Would be interesting to dissect the fruits. If they get far enough embryo rescue could be attempted. I suspect it is SI as well. The fruits don't get far at all. I tried putting one with the flower stem in some agar with sugar. I'll have to check but i think the plant still died. I gave it my best shot not having cultured plants on agar before. I though it was a long shot anyway though. |
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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on Jan 13, 2018 11:03:26 GMT -5
Joseph Lofthouse, how are the f2 pennellii seeds i sent you doing? The ones you planted already anyway.
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Jan 13, 2018 21:21:55 GMT -5
Joseph Lofthouse, how are the f2 pennellii seeds i sent you doing? The ones you planted already anyway.  And while I was taking photos, here's G3 plants of [Fern X LA1777]. I'm loving the frilly leaves.  |
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Post by imgrimmer on Jan 14, 2018 3:48:03 GMT -5
The F2 i'm growing indoors keeps seemingly to set fruit when i hand pollinate but later the fruits fall off. Perhaps Self-Incompatibility has been restored? Otherwise it may just be that it is indoors and wants to grow bigger but is restricted. Is this plant growing under this lamp from the beginning? It looks pretty good. I purchased the same lamp (you posted it somewhere) and one is not enough for my plants. They grow but show deformated leaves it is not dramatic but I wonder about yours. |
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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on Jan 14, 2018 16:27:29 GMT -5
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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on Jan 15, 2018 23:45:39 GMT -5
Dig around on the net about Orange Purple Smudge. It has a different background than you think. Blue tomatoes are a mixed lot..... containing snippets of several wild species... Chessmanii, Lycopersicoides, and Chilense added to Lycopersicum.  along with such commercial tomatoes of questionable flavor...VF36 and a couple of unknown varieties...Vigoroz? and/or unknown. There has got to be some genetic drag leading to less flavor than we would like.  How did it get started? I am growing the ancestor lines to Indigo Rose..LA1996, and LA0791 and the Abg line to better understand the breeding work done earlier. Breeding the old lines together and also with the advanced progenies will give me some idea what went on and what to improve by using better flavored lines of quite complicated backgrounds. There is more to the story but the following will give you some idea of the genesis for a blue tomato.... webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cachegq_F9yF6b8J:scholarsarchive.library.oregonstate.edu/xmlui/bitstream/handle/1957/23709/MESPETERD2005.pdf%3Fsequence%3D1+&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-aBreeding Tomatoes for Improved Antioxidant Activity by Peter J. Mes 2004 The immediate future is here. Breeder/Vendor folks like myself have made great inroads to get even higher antocyanin content in blue tomatoes. I have hybrids with the Orange Fleshed Purple Smudge which has peruvianum genes to go along with the chessmanii, lycopersicoides and chilense species. This is part of the fun work with blue tomatoes....testing the hypothesis that blue tomatoes are valuable in several ways including sun scald resistance. Adding the rin gene to blue tomatoes to get extended shelf life may be a way to retest the ability of blue tomatoes to resist rot. That I am going to the field today to cross my rin lines to many kinds of blues shows that I am taking this kind of research seriously. Since I am a breeder of blue potatoes and blue corn....I am fascinated by observations such as blue potatoes having a microbial resistance in the tubers. Sorry about my disjointed writing style ....I am biting at the bit to get out to the field to add to my already 250 crosses made. String tags everywhere! |
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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on Jan 20, 2018 12:14:51 GMT -5
So today i realized that the other big tomato plant growing in a small pot inside has what might be characteristic S. Habrochaites leaves. Also has some sort of strong smell. What is weird though is i thought those were F2 S. Pennellii hybrids. One small tomato that was growing with it had potato leaves like my other F2 pennelli I'm growing, i transplanted it into the Aeroponics / Fogponics root chamber thingy. It is doing well. Pretty sure that one is of pennellii ancestry. So.. I suspect this one could be a natural bee hybrid between the pennelli hybrid and S. Habrochaites. Joseph Lofthouse, keep an eye out for off types in the pennelli seed i sent you. |
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Jan 20, 2018 13:48:31 GMT -5
I suspect this one could be a natural bee hybrid between the pennelli hybrid and S. Habrochaites. Joseph Lofthouse, keep an eye out for off types in the pennellii seed i sent you. That's exciting to me! One of my highest priority crosses this year is [domestic X habrochaites] X [domestic X pennellii]. I'd feel really content with [domestic X pennellii] X habrochaites! I'm currently growing 3 plants from the pennellii cross. All three of them are highly aromatic. Each in a different way. |
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Post by walt on Jan 20, 2018 14:02:44 GMT -5
You could search garden web all day and not find [domestic X pennellii] X habrochaites mentioned. Not judgement. Just saying.
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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on Jan 21, 2018 10:58:20 GMT -5
Sounds like this wide project involving all kinds of wild tomatoes is heading into uncharted territories. A good thing i think!
What sort of annoys me is all the introgression lines the TGRC has. In a way it's good. But in a way it's bad. I understand the desire to do things all scientifically and try and prevent genetic drag and all but at the same time there are too many introgression lines that it looks like it would prevent people from working with them in some ways.
That's why i like this project. This one has way more potential than the those in my opinion. Sure there will be things like taste and fruit size and other factors that need to be selected out but on the other hand we will get more disease tolerance, more pest tolerance, more drought tolerance, more frost tolerance, more fruit colors and smells and maybe flavors, better growth, and other novel traits like auto-hybridizing and attractive to pollinators.
Domestic tomatoes on the other hand are generally bland (not always), some grow slow, most are risen with some pest or disease and hard to cultivate organically or without massive chemicals, and are not drought or frost tolerant, and are not attractive to pollinators. Though domestic tomatoes are easier to root cuttings, have large heirloom fruit, and easy to germinate and seedlings grow fast.
Tomatoes are just itching to have all their various species merged back into one species.
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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on Jan 21, 2018 11:05:54 GMT -5
DarJones tatermater @anyonereally, Anyone have the other OSU precursor lines? I grew. LA1996 and loved it! It grew fantastic for me! I'm curious if the others would too. LA0797 and LA3736
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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on Feb 5, 2018 21:29:25 GMT -5
The F2 pennelli potato leaf hybrid inside still does not appear to want to set fruit with S. galapagense pollen. I am continuing to try over several days and maybe by stimulating the flower with the electric toothbrush in conjunction. We will see.
I am wondering though if the S. galapagense pollen in too domestic-like and is being rejected by the SI of pennellii genetics. or if there is sterility. The F2 pennellii does not produce pollen when i use the toothbrush, but the S. galapagense does provide a small cloud of pollen as does the other mystery habrochaites-like-ish tomato that also has small tiny domestic-like flowers.
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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on Feb 6, 2018 11:48:26 GMT -5
I have to wait for new flowers to mature to get new pollen to try again. But i've started experimenting with cutting styles shorter just in case the pollen from the tomato species/varieties just can't make it down the long style length. I figured since the styles are shorter on S. Galapagense that maybe the pollen only has enough energy to make it the same length, thus if i cut the pennellii hybrid styles to match maybe I'll get some fruit. www.slideshare.net/S7w4X/zwv105 |
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