Mead Making Question

[blueadzuki]

Hi all,

As a surprise gift last birthday (on top of the usual check I get) my parents decided to give me a mead making kit (I was already home brewing some meads before using cleaned old bottles, but they decided to get me a formal set which has proved handy (for one thing, I now have the equipment to vent and rack properly) So at the moment I have three meads fermenting. Well,to be technical, one mead, one morat (what you get if you ferment honey together with mulberry juice), and one vegan "pseudo-mead" (made using a vegan honey substitute make from concentrated coconut sap*)

My question, which I hope someone can answer concerns when I know it is time to bottle. Is mead supposed to be like wine, where you keep it in the fermenter until it completely stops bubbling (i.e. the alcohol content has killed off the yeast) Or is it more like beer where the stuff can still be bubbling and fermenting a bit when it goes into the bottle? At the rate some of them are fizzing, I'm becoming dubious that they will EVER stop**. I'm basically trying to avoid having the bottles all explode down the road but on the other hand do not want to let the stuff sit fermenting so long it spoils/oxidizes.

The instructions with my kit say mead supposed to be ready three weeks after you start it, but they seem to be trying for a mead that you drink more or less straight out of the fermenter, one that you NEVER bottle*** which won't work for me (to be brutally honest, I'm not planning to drink ANY of the mead myself, my medical health would not allow it (beyond the tiniest of sips to make sure it tastes OK) It's ALL going to a cousin I know****

So any info would be appreciated*****.

*Which I suppose makes it more kin to African/Middle Eastern palm wine than to mead.

** I made the second two BEFORE I got the kit, and based on it's instructions, I actually made them at around double the strength it recommends (though their recipe seems a little weak)

*** If it matters I am planning to go with a cork bottling as opposed to a cap one. It seems safer (a cork is more likely to fail and pop out where a metal cap might form a tight enough seal to make the whole bottle explode) and economical (dad always has plenty of leftover wine bottles I can sterilize and re-use.)

****Motivated at least by half to shut him up about his raspberry wine and how special he is for making it.

***** When giving information, please note it is a VERY small home brew kit, which basically can only make 1-2 bottles at a time, and that that is really all I can handle at the moment. So ideas that involve doing things that require massive scaling up (such as buying barrels or metal storage tubs to age it until it is flat) are not feasible. Even if I could make mead on that scale, I'd have nowhere to put it, and no one to give the excess away too (there'd be no takers in my immediate family and I don't want to give that cousin so much he drinks himself stupid (which he might, he can be like that) I also don't want there to be so much that he tries again to FORCE me to drink it (for some reason, he considered the fact I don't drink, and drink heavily, to be some sort of personal insult, and thinks it is his obligation to try and turn me into a six pack a week person.)

[khoomeizhi]

'My question, which I hope someone can answer concerns when I know it is time to bottle. Is mead supposed to be like wine, where you keep it in the fermenter until it completely stops bubbling (i.e. the alcohol content has killed off the yeast) Or is it more like beer where the stuff can still be bubbling and fermenting a bit when it goes into the bottle? At the rate some of them are fizzing, I'm becoming dubious that they will EVER stop**. I'm basically trying to avoid having the bottles all explode down the road but on the other hand do not want to let the stuff sit fermenting so long it spoils/oxidizes.'

in general mead is more like wine - especially if you've increased the gravity from the recipe. the higher the gravity, the higher the alcohol content, the longer it takes to ferment (also, wine yeasts are generally slower in comparison to ale yeasts), and frequently, the longer it takes to age once it's bottled 'til it's 'ready'. if you've got them under airlock, you should be good for months if not years. most of my wild yeast meads clock in between 9 and 15 or so months (sometimes longer) from start to bottling. it's generally not recommended to bottle mead while still fermenting. then again, doing 'short mead' or lower-alcohol 'session' meads with lower sugar starting points, you should be able to treat more like beer and bottle carbonate.

1-gallon jugs are my to go-to small/experimental batch container, as they're readily available. i've got enough that i can let them sit for ages, and still have extras i can start new batches or rack with. if you're dealing with a smaller size, is it possible to get another container for longer aging? a half-gallon juice or beer jug or growler that you can find somewhere cheap?

the 'three weeks' thing seems weird, but may be because of a specific variety of yeast they supply? with a lower starting gravity and a particular strain of yeast you might expect that timeframe.

[paquebot]

Without going into great detail, mead is treated like wine when it comes to bottling. It is not meant to be like a champagne. That is, allow the yeast to work out completely and bottle with corks. Never made a small batch, always 5 gallons using 5 pounds of honey per gallon.

Martin

[blueadzuki]

So it sounds like I wait until they stop bubbling. I can work with that. I won't actually see that cousin until Labor Day (if not Thanksgiving) so I certainly have time (if I need the main growler for another session, I can always, as you said, get a bottle and transfer the stuff in there over to another bottle. And that means I have time to save up for bottling supplies. They're a lot more pricey than I thought, or one of the reasons I am going for corks (so when I use up a bottle, I can simply wash it and put a new cork in the next time, as opposed to using a cap and risking chipping the bottle when I get the cap off.)

Technically the morat IS wild yeast, though it wasn't supposed to be. I got a little confused when I started that one (my first (on purpose) and thought I could use brewers yeast I got at the health food store (which turned out to be sterilized). The morat fermented up fine, so I assumed the yeast was good. I find out the truth until I had made the second batch (the vegan one) and nothing happened. I therefore can only assume that the fermentation in the morat came from whatever yeasts were already on the dried berries.

As for containers, I see no reason why I can't just keep re-using big water bottles. Since most of my batches are already a quart to half gallon or less (the growler says it's 64 fluid ounces, the water bottles, 32). They're free (at least, as long as I keep drinking the occasional bottled water, they have no additional cost) quick to transport and have the advantage of being a bit more "pliable" than most 1 gallon jugs, which makes it easier to "press" out the extra air/CO2 when venting)

And it's not like I have to hurry to get the fourth batch in. Living when I do, it's all commercial anyway (i.e. I have to buy the honey/fruit from a store, it's not like it's stuff I'm growing) so the only real parameter I have on time is the next time I see a interesting honey as say "Hmm, I wonder how it will ferment?" The honey in the morat is Greek Oak, the growler, French Forest.(I was going to do a blueberry blossom a month or so ago, but it turned out the honey container was open when I bought it, and while I know honey won't spoil, I though it best not to risk the chance that whoever had opened it had actually put something in it.)

[steev]

OMG! You are such a nerd. There is no way in hell that I would go to that much trouble if I didn't intend to drink the results; no disrespect intended; some people are process-oriented, rather than results-oriented; it's all good. Were we not a variable species, we'd likely not have survived. I'll not go into the many non-goal-driven activities I've enjoyed. Have I mentioned my "farm"?

If we are't having fun, what's the point?

[blueadzuki]

Apr 14, 2017 0:25:41 GMT -5 steev said:

some people are process-oriented, rather than results-oriented;

On the contrary, I think I am being very "results-oriented" in this case. It's just that the "results" I am after is wiping the smug smile off my cousin's face as opposed to making something I personally want to use. Never underestimate the power of righteous indignation (or in this case, probably the desire to show off) as a motivator.

[steev]

There is much to be said for non-material rewards.

[blueadzuki]

UPDATE

The mead and the morat were finally done this weekend (the pseduo still needs some time, that stuff is REALLY full of sugar) and so were ready for tasting.

The mead came out all right. That is it tastes like crap to me but it would have tasted like crap to me ANYWAY since I consider alcohol to be foul stuff no matter what. My dad (who while he does not drink beer because of it's effects on his blood sugar at least does not find the taste offensive) says it actually is quite pleasant, as did my mom (though she did say the stuff was INCREDIBLY strong, and went straight to her head) So that one is sitting in the growler, waiting for the bottles to arrive. Or more accurately waiting for the corks and corking materials to arrive and for dad to use up 1-2 corked bottles of wine (as in ones that had corks not "corked" in the spoiled wine sense) since I don't have any plans on spending $16 apiece on empty glass bottles from the catalog.

The morat was a washout. Evidently, the "wild" yeast around here in the air combined with whatever natural yeast was on the mulberries resulted in a morat that was horrifically sour. so down the drain it went.

I actually have my next candidate honey already set for when I get more yeast (which will be the same times as I get the corks and corker) While rummaging around the spices looking for a replacement jar of Dead Sea Salt (I couldn't find one, we are apparently finally out and down to our last jar of Kalahari salt as well.) I discovered a jar of the Greek Oak honey I used to make the morat (and which I thought I had totally used up) So I'll see how that works on it's own (and professional yeast) Probably will be a very small batch (the jars are small to being with, and the one I found is about half used up) but I may be able to get a pint or so going.

[mjc]

May 12, 2017 19:14:48 GMT -5 blueadzuki said:

The morat was a washout. Evidently, the "wild" yeast around here in the air combined with whatever natural yeast was on the mulberries resulted in a morat that was horrifically sour. so down the drain it went.

I probably would have held on to it...either to age for a while or allow it to move on to vinegar.

As to the mead being 'done'...it really needs about 6 months to 2 yrs worth of aging, first.

[blueadzuki]

I wasn't THAT kind of sour. In any case, after making it I discovered mulberries are dangerous with statins (which I presumably will be on for my whole life). Why keep something I can never actually consume. I'm turning everything over to the cousin in 4-8 months anyway and I doubt it would have improved much in that time (the stuff mostly stopped fizzing about two months ago, so it had ALREADY been ageing since then).

As for ageing the rest, it depends. There's probably more than one bottle in the jug anyway, so I can simply say "open one now, and put the other one with that wine you make for a few years to see how it is then) I certainly don't have the space to keep it until then (It's not like I have a wine cellar)

And that is assuming that bottle ageing is what you meant. If you mean that ageing in a wooden barrel is essential (as opposed to simply advantageous) then I'm stuck anyway, I'd have no idea how to find a keg that held only 5 gallons (less if you factor in loss) and I'm no cooper, so I couldn't make one of my own. I can of course put wood chips in the bottles, but that is really not the same if the stuff has to "breathe" the entire time.

And those sizes are important. everything I do is SMALL BATCH, as in 5 gallons is the UPPER limit of what I can make at a time (that's all the kit jug will hold, and that suits me fine as that fits very nicely with the amounts on honey a standard commercial jar holds) 2 years sounds good for a whole hogshead, but I suspect with those amounts it would destroy them. With the amount of honey I have, the next batch will probably only be about a PINT of finished product, if I am lucky, a quart if I make it weak. This is hobby stuff, and I have no intentions of trying to scale up any time soon. (I know this is the homesteading section, but that does not mean I am, or are trying to take every action with the idea of "do on a scale where I become totally independent from everyone and everything.)

[blueadzuki]

UPDATE

The first two meads are now bottled and on the ageing rack (at least until Labor day, when further ageing falls under my cousins onus.

The first one yielded one and a half bottles (I got the size of the jug wrong, it's 0.5 gallons NOT 5) That means I had to cork one bottle that was only half full (that's the downside of using re-purposed bottles, I don't have much control as to what sizes I have yet (at least until I build up a goodly supply) I think I'll tell my cousin to open the half bottle first (before it oxidizes too much) and save the full one for ageing.

Flavor was surprisingly good for a first try. My sister (who is quite picky) actually liked it a LOT, as did my dad (I actually had to stop him from trying to drink the dregs {the stuff from the bottom I decided was too full of sediment to keep, I'm still not great at racking)

The second (the one made from "vegan" honey) yielded one bottle (and a dribble over for tasting) It's OK, thought not as good as the first one. The fermentation process apparently gets rid of any lingering coconut flavor in the ersatz honey and no floral notes (as actual honey would have) are there to replace it. So not doing that mix again.

The next one should be ready to bottle in 4-6 weeks based on the bubbling rate.

What type of honey I'll use next I haven't decided. I have some pine that might be good (I seem to find tree/sapin honeys seem to yield better results for me that floral ones)

I think it may be worthwhile this Wed. to take a little diversion over to Kalustyan's spices to browse their extremely extensive honey selection (useful fact, if you are ever looking for a rare or interesting new honey, a Middle Eastern or Indian grocery store is a good place to go, since so many of their dishes and desserts use honey.). Maybe I'll luck out and they will have the Soliga honey in again, collected from trees at the base of the Himalayas (thought now that I have heard of "mad honey" I'll have to check WHERE at the base we are talking about.)

[steev]

You could fill the empty space in a partially-full bottle by inserting, inflating, and tying a condom (obviously not a lubed or flavored one).

[blueadzuki]

Three problems 1. No one in the house HAS any condoms (my parents were done with fooling around as soon as my sister was born, and I never saw the point of relationships 2 It would be easier to use a balloon I think. and 3. The bottle is already corked, and getting the cork IN too so much effort I'm loathe to try and pull it OUT and put another one in. It only has to stay drinkable for another three months (exactly, actually, Labor Day is Sep 4), it probably won't go bad in that time span. And if I does, well, they'll be three or four bottles left that are safe. But I'll keep the idea in mind for the next time I have a short bottle (It's been a long time, but I seem to recall the Soliga "spheres" were a bit on the small side (and VERY thick glass) so they may hold less than 8oz which would mean less than a quart of finished mead.

[12540dumont]

Blue, If you're going to continue to make Mead, I suggest the book: The Complete Guide to Making Mead. By Steve Piatz.

Everything you ever wanted to know. I really like his section on different honeys and yeasts. My son makes a Morat. After bottling, he puts it under the stairs for 2 years.

He's made some pretty good meads. The Wall Street Journal had an article on cholesterol medicine and fruit/food interactions. There's also a pretty good board on mead making mead called gotmead.com that you can pose questions to.

My job when the men make mead is to wash the bottles. Everyone needs a chief cook and bottlewasher.....

[blueadzuki]

At the moment I think I'll stick with straight meads, at least until I have a handle one what honeys make results I like.

I like your idea and probably WILL eventually get the book. For yeasts it will probably be handy; less so with honeys (simply because I tend to go for really exotic honeys that probably lie beyond the scope of the book)

Speaking of which, I got my new candidate today courtesy of the store I mentioned. Couldn't find any of the spheres, but I DID find some honey from the Zapotec Forests of Oaxaca, which I think may actually come from native bees (I wouldn't be the first time I've worked with non standard bee honey; years ago I did one with honey from the Balinese Giant Honeybee.)

Now I have to save up some money so I can try with some real exotics, like Corboleeza honey (I wonder how bitter honey will work as a mead, will it be like a more hoppy taste?) Or that sour honey they make in Goyaz Brazil (if they sell it)