Nitrogen immobilization-is there any fix besides time?

[squishysquashy]

Hi y'all.  I have several vegetable garden clients with raised beds and other clients with in-ground beds. The in-ground beds are doing great, but the raised beds are sprouting, stalling out, yellowing, and dying. I am fairly certain that the compost I brought in was very unfinished. It is largely wood-based, and is causing nitrogen lock-up. Not even the beans are growing; in fact, they look burnt up.  Everything is stalled out with yellow leaves, purple stems. The only thing growing well is peas.  Is there any way to turn this around? A better question, is there any way to turn this around quickly and get my plants some available nitrogen? It seems like everything I put on there to try and fix it is being used up so quickly that the plants aren't getting any.

[steev]

Looks like inadequate compost maturation; too much brown to too little green; common in municipal "compost" consisting of largely tree-trimmings and ground wood; while it will eventually work itself out, in the short run (while you want to look good and build your customer base) I fear you need to doctor with some ammonium sulfate for nitrogen; prolly don't need to worry about P or K; just go for the cheap fert.

I hope you aren't dealing with herbicide-treated plants being composted, which is a growing problem, in more than one way. I think that's what got all my toms and peppers this past year.

Not that I want to bitch, (wish I had no reason to do so) but pesticide/herbicide/pharmaceuticals seem to be contaminating the whole damned environment; is there a carcinogen deficit that we need to remedy? Can't we just get along without them? While I recognize the "feed the world" trope, I have serious doubts that that is really what drives the Big Ag model.

Sorry to vent on your thread, but I tend to think we're all being poisoned, not just your raised beds.

[SteveB]

I hear of this, but have never experienced it myself. I use straight Browns quite often. Leaves especially wood chips are my favorite mulches for veggies. Partially decomposed I will till in if I feel the soil needs OM. But usually once established, a good layer dumped on throughout the year keeps the soil happy.

As Steev said, if nitrogen is the issue then a shot for the bed, and a shot of your flavor for yourself...

I too would question the amount of "cides" in the compost. That is mainly what I try to avoid.
Just my $.02

[steev]

Ditto that; I also mulch with browns, which causes no problem since it isn't mixed into the soil until it's had time to decay.

[squishysquashy]

I hear ya, Steev. I worry about contamination too, because yes, it is municipal compost. In trying to make my services affordable, I botched it up by sourcing cheap materials. I'm not sure where to get ammonium sulfate locally because I don't remember ever seeing it in a store. I have put organic fertilizers on it but it doesn't seem to help. Wish I could find a local source of manure that I can trust. The closest available is horse manure from nearby stables, but I have no way of knowing if it will contain systemic pesticides from what the horses are eating. I have a source about 45 minutes away from me of cow manure that I know is clean, but I don't have a truck, which is probably the biggest hindrance I face. I wonder if adding diluted pee will help fix it? Not sure my clients will be into that, though. lol!

In the meantime, I am no longer doing true raised beds with all imported soil, and I am testing a new mix that is a spin-off of Mel Bartholomew's mix in one client's bed. Unfortunately it takes half a season before you can see results.

[steev]

Ammonium sulfate should be readily available in any nursery/garden center.

Horse-poo is prolly a good bet; not much of their feed is likely to be pest/herbicided; cow-poo is like pig and dog-poo, far too well utilized to have much value left.

I assume you're referencing human pee, which is generally not concentrated enough to burn plants, so no need to dilute it; if you find it burns you, I advise consulting a qualified health provider.

As to clients not being into their gardens getting kidney-squeezin's, when released into Nature, urine gets taken up by appreciative organisms so fast that there is no noticeable presence; granted, when it's released on a concrete doorway, it's not so inoffensive.

[templeton]

Squish, if manure supply is an issue, try a green weed 'tea'. container, water to cover fresh leafy green weeds, mash 'em a bit, leave for a week or so, starts fermenting and gets ripe, dilute to weak tea colour, apply.
Been applying to my leafy greens with good effect last month or so. don't apply it too strong
One issue that has been drawn to my attention, but only anecdotal evidence, is the use of wormicides in horse rearing. Correspondent reported that it can be transferred in horse manure to garden.
T

[reed]

Mu neighbor has horses and I used to get poo from them but I figured out a few years ago it is a bad idea. I don't know what could be in it cause at least in summer their horses are just on pasture and I know they don't use any sprays so it must be something in the hay they get from somewhere else. In any event, on top of huge amounts of apparently resistant weed seeds that survive the trip through the horse there is something that suppresses growth of most things. One area of my garden took a couple seasons to recover the last time I applied it.

I use my own chicken poo but not what accumulates through winter while they are eating supplemental purchased food. I clean the coop in early spring and discard that.

[gilbert]

Hay is often treated with persistent herbicides to kill everything but grass; it survives in manure and compost. Gardens can be sterilized for years after application. Look up Clopyralid and Aminopyralid. This link looks like a good place to start. compostingcouncil.org/persistent-herbicide-faq/

I'm no longer bringing in organic matter of any sort; hay, straw, leaves, grass, manure, etc. I don't worry about most chemicals, which fungi can break down just fine. But I can't risk getting those herbicides into my garden or field.

[SteveB]

So far I've had no issues with manure. Maybe some weed seeds, but they are kept under control. I use compost which is good, but mainly I mulch a lot. Especially in the fall, by spring the worm population is in abundance and there is little left of the mulch. Though I know the specific issue in question is in more immediate than time alone. Maybe some blood meal?

[squishysquashy]

Thanks for the suggestions. Who knew sourcing compost and manure would be so hard! Can't trust the cheap/free sources and the proven sources are so expensive! This week I went around to the messed up beds and turned over all the soil/compost mix that was in there. It has been several months since I built the beds and the compost smells so much better and more compost-y than when I brought it in (it was pretty stinky! Should have known better.) Still to late for the stunted plants but I think subsequent plantings will do much better. After turning the old compost, I added some new, biologically active expensive compost and some more organic fertilizer. Will be foliar feeding with compost tea or weed tea, too.

The biggest mystery was the beans, though. Beans make their own nitrogen, right, so they should have been ok even with soil in which nitrogen is unavailable...they shriveled up and died after their first true leaf. But my peas look wonderful and are putting out little peas right and left. They are in the same soil! In fact, they are the only plant that lived through this jacked up soil. Mysterious mysteries! (to me, at least!) Perhaps the rhizobium that the beans needed were not present but the ones that peas like were in there?

[templeton]

pH?

[steev]

I will admit that I don't know shit about horse-care, so wormicides are not on my radar (at least not since I was in Central America; you don't want me to elaborate, except for one experience when I went with an afflicted fellow-gringo to a farmacia to pick out the appropriate poison to evict/exterminate his unwelcome guests; the clerk wanted to know whether I was a doctor; no, solamente un zoologisto; porque esto puedo leer los nombres scientificos de los animales que los medicines traten), and the horses I have experience of are not fed much other than local pasturage, same as the local sheep and goats; folks near the farm really aren't into the chem thing. I think any imported hay is generally oats grown on land that isn't being broadleaf-herbicided, having been long-cultivated, thickly sown, and fertilized enough that not much else competes. I don't doubt that other places have other problems and practices, but I know that clean, kissing-sweet horse-pucky is garden gold (-brownish). If I know anything, it's shit! I've often been told so.

Having trained as a zoologist: scats, poo, crap, and their qualities were a thing, one of the more useful ways of knowing who's been around and on what they've dined (boar and coyotes like manzanita fruit, for instance).

[walnuttr]

"the beans, though. ..they shriveled up and died after their first true leaf. But my peas look wonderful"
Um, How are the beds & plants looking now? Couple of lines to question: the decay fungus in the "compost" selecting out the beans to eat as well,
the other is how much over-watering was done? sometimes peas will handle puddles of water while beans get root-rot...and elevated beds can actually drain less well than soil with pore-water contacts down deep.
Nitrogen: cheapest is usually ammonium nitrate granules...just don't make any jokes about its other uses.
Heerbicides in compost: add a caution about "moss killer" being applied to lawns and the mown grass ending up in a compost...it will shrivel tomatoes and other veges for a couple of years via the compost.
So much we need to be alert for....:-{

[prairiegardens]

What about coffee grounds? They are often easy to access and are unlikely to be contaminated with much, I think
Alfalfa hay, if it isn't RoundUp Ready, can be useful. Being a leafy plant rather than a grass it's unlikely to have herbicides in it although these days there's no guarantee about much of anything. Grass hay here is seldom sprayed, maybe different elsewhere, but any straw is highly likely to have been dosed several times, unless it's organic .