Exclusive seed growing rights question.

[templeton]

What is a reasonable return for a breeder who offers exclusive growing rights to a farmer?
OK.
I've bred my coloured snowpeas. They are stable, and tasty. I've registered two lines through the Open Source Seed Initiative, and I'm distributing them fairly freely and selling online.
I have other lines that I haven't registered or distributed (much). A commercial grower has put in test rows of all 4 lines, and is getting very good responses from his wholesalers. He wants to grow more. So far its been a handshake deal, he gets to grow and sell some, I get some seed back. He also gets some seed.

We want to expand. He wants to pay me. I want a (small) slice of the action. If this was actually a useful survival crop I would probably just let it go, but since its a niche boutique thing, that might have considerable potential to make money, and with my retirement looming, a little extra coming in, compensation from my 5 years of breeding work, seems like a reasonable idea.

But neither of know how exclusive licencing deals work, or what's a reasonable return.
Are there any standard deals we could look at? More importantly, What is a reasonable return for the breeder? I was thinking a percentage of sales. Any online resources for this? I would rather not lawyer up for this.

I also have a number of other melon and carrot lines in the offing that we are interested in, so getting something that works ok would be good.

Additionally, he is selling a chunk of his main business (where he is growing my peas) to wholesalers, and if some bigger players are going to profit from my work, I want in - a bit.
The melons and others are likely to be a side project, we can sort of pursue a little more informally.

T

[Joseph Lofthouse]

The agreement I have with a few people that grow and sell varieties that I developed is 5% of gross sales.

[rowan]

There are a few royalty agreement templates and samples online that you can rewrite to suit your circumstances. Here is one I quickly brought up: mountainhort.ces.ncsu.edu/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/tomato-seed-production-and-license-agreement.pdf?fwd=no

[templeton]

Thanks for the feedback.
I'll give it a bit more thought.

[keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.)]

Oct 30, 2017 17:13:03 GMT -5 templeton said:

What is a reasonable return for a breeder who offers exclusive growing rights to a farmer?

I've registered two lines through the Open Source Seed Initiative.

No idea, but i also would be interested in knowing. I may want to pursue something in the future if the watermelons keep developing into something good or the citron x watermelon project or a pea line down the road.

T, curious about the registering with the Open Source Seed Initiative. How does one register a variety there? Do you have a link?

[rowan]

osseeds.org/

[templeton]

Oct 30, 2017 22:21:06 GMT -5 keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) said:

Oct 30, 2017 17:13:03 GMT -5 templeton said:

What is a reasonable return for a breeder who offers exclusive growing rights to a farmer?

I've registered two lines through the Open Source Seed Initiative.

No idea, but i also would be interested in knowing. I may want to pursue something in the future if the watermelons keep developing into something good or the citron x watermelon project or a pea line down the road.

T, curious about the registering with the Open Source Seed Initiative. How does one register a variety there? Do you have a link?

Follow rowan's link.

Open Source. Anyone can use it for anything as long as any of the products produced also remain open source. Puts a disincentive on anyone else to sneakily claim your lines as their own.

I'm going to have a chat with george this morning - I might go 10% as an opener Since I don't want to have to audit, need to keep it low enough that an honour system is sufficient.

I checked out the End Point Royalty amounts (where the grower doesn't pay up front for the seed, but pays on the amount that goes to market) for various wheat varieties in Australia, between $2 and $4 per metric tonne. wheat sells for around $250 per MT at the moment, so that's up to ~2%. Given the rarity value of seed I'm producing, and the specialty product/niche market, I reckon 2% is way too low.

[12540dumont]

Open Source is really cool! There's even some Lofthouse goodies there! Templeton, I think you should put the Mill Creek Onion there!

[keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.)]

Thanks, i finally figured it out. I know what open source is and have known what the open source seed alliance is for some time as well. I just didn't know about the registering of varieties, but i like the idea as it gives someone a place to use if they find someone violating the agreement somehow, they can then show them the link and say" look this variety was registered 5 years ago under the open source agreement and you are violating it, here is proof".

I'm a big fan of open source. My main Computer OS is Ubuntu Linux (based on Debian), i tinker a lot with Arduinos and open hardware. My 3D printer is a Lulzbot which is Open source / Open Hardware. And now i like the idea of open source seed varieties. good stuff.

[templeton]

Nov 2, 2017 13:20:22 GMT -5 12540dumont said:

Open Source is really cool! There's even some Lofthouse goodies there! Templeton, I think you should put the Mill Creek Onion there!

I don't think I can register something that someone else had bred/selected. It would be nice if it was registered.

[imgrimmer]

As soon as commercial distributors are involved I would turn away from "open source". You can`t control what is going to happen with your variety and who is earning money with it.
e.g. as it is free to use in further breeding it is very easy for commercial breeders to turn it into something "new" and copyright it. Amateur breeders without a commercial background will use it anyway, wheather copyrighted or not, speak from my own experience...
I see "copyright" as an instrument to control action if bigger player gets involved.
Here in Germany it is possible to register a so called amateur variety, which is easier to register as commercial varieties, less trials and less burocracy. You might have something similar in Australia...?
In case of a contract some percentage of the volume is a good deal to me. How much depends on the distributor.

[imgrimmer]

Nov 8, 2017 16:38:08 GMT -5 templeton said:

Nov 2, 2017 13:20:22 GMT -5 12540dumont said:

Open Source is really cool! There's even some Lofthouse goodies there! Templeton, I think you should put the Mill Creek Onion there!

I don't think I can register something that someone else had bred/selected. It would be nice if it was registered.

you can register nearly everything as long as you are the first. Even letters. Sad but true.

[templeton]

Nov 12, 2017 16:08:36 GMT -5 imgrimmer said:

Nov 8, 2017 16:38:08 GMT -5 templeton said:

I don't think I can register something that someone else had bred/selected. It would be nice if it was registered.

you can register nearly everything as long as you are the first. Even letters. Sad but true.

Sorry i should have been clearer. OSSI registration. They have standards
T