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Peas 2018
May 20, 2018 9:34:03 GMT -5
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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on May 20, 2018 9:34:03 GMT -5
So woo hoo to those who are interested in true outcrossing peas, we may be well on our way. I have been having trade-secret discussions with a well connected plant breeder. It's looking like promiscuous peas will be commercially available in a few years. Interesting. On so many levels. Before you and others on this forum mentioned you were interested in outcrossinh peas I was not aware anyone else was. Does this trade-secret talk mean that these peas being developed are owned by big Ag such as Syngenta and/or GMO? I would think that even with a trade secret just that the desire to have such peas would be in a research paper somewhere and/or talk about the development or idea of development. I would like to read such a paper. What part is secret exactly? The way in the problem is being solved or just that it is university and/Or big Ag funding it and want to profit off it? I really can't see it being a trait that is really in high demand. But maybe I'm missing something. Still, interesting. Thanks for mentioning it, even if you aren't allowed to say much. |
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ethin
gardener
Plant Breeder and Graphic Designer in Cache Valley Utah, USDA Zone 4b
Posts: 214
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Post by ethin on May 20, 2018 14:28:24 GMT -5
Really? You have a purple passion that has parsley leaves? That's weird. I can't possibly imagine how that would happen... quite the mystery... also really?? The largest and best leaves??? It was always small, thin and spindly for me.. these are the ones with small purple seeds?? Weird... well you never know... .. i have been known to be very lazy with labeling my attempted pea crosses... That's what the chart I made while planting say's is planted in that row segment. Maybe a better word would have been vigorous or precocious, yes they're spindly and the leaves are a bit small but they are taller than the others you sent me and are on average a leaf node or two ahead of the others even though they came up at the same time. |
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Peas 2018
May 21, 2018 13:53:57 GMT -5
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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on May 21, 2018 13:53:57 GMT -5
ethin, ok that sounds more like it. Still interesting it is doing so well. So i went out and looked at the nap gene flowers again this morning and they look rather normal now.  I'm not sure what happened. Perhaps something that is temp dependant? It has been cold and rainy the last two days.
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Peas 2018
May 21, 2018 23:28:59 GMT -5
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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on May 21, 2018 23:28:59 GMT -5
So i went out and looked at the nap gene flowers again this morning and they look rather normal now. I'm not sure what happened. Perhaps something that is temp dependant? It has been cold and rainy the last two days. I checked them again, and the first flower i checked was open with a weak seam, but not the others. Hmm. Maybe i should mark that plant and watch it more closely than its siblings... Additionally i noticed this line has deeper anthocyanin flower color than most and it has anthocyanin color on the keel wheras i have not seen that before on other peas with colored flowers. I guess i will be looking at pea flowers more closely this year. |
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Peas 2018
May 24, 2018 20:48:50 GMT -5
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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on May 24, 2018 20:48:50 GMT -5
Heather peas blooming! Large Podded blooming! Orange-pod in full bloom! One purple passion hybrid F2 blooming. And a few tall hybrids in the mighty midget and orange pod stands. One biskopen hybrid blooming ahead of the others. I'm surprised Nap gene have so many flowers!!! My red-snap peas are blooming, but apparently the flowers do not fully open. Lol. Not as bad as opal creek, but not as fully exerted as some others. Nap gene peas do indeed have easier access to bees. I think nap gene peas are worth investigating more, and they already have wrinkled seeds, so they might taste good already! www.flickr.com/photos/57674169@N04/shares/9980g8EDIT: Here are two photos of the flowers of the NAP gene peas. They are open at the top so a bee could get in much easier than a traditional pea flower which is all tight and closed up. Not as dramatic as i was hoping for, but i think they certainly have potential. There is another mutation i want to plant out and study next season if i can as it may also have open flowers. If that one is just as open as these then both lines might be worth pursuing. Perhaps even crossing together (though both are recessive traits, but on different loci).  20180524_195144 by Andrew Barney, on Flickr  20180524_195206 by Andrew Barney, on Flickr |
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Post by rowan on May 24, 2018 23:43:41 GMT -5
Last year I grew speckled snow peas for the first time. They were the only peas I have ever grown that coped with my main pest - Red Legged Earth Mite. Anyway, I was really impressed. They only have small pods but there was no fibre at all in the pods and they were just as good used as snow peas, snap, and shelling. The seeds are cream covered with brown speckles. The only references I can find to them on the web is for using for sprouting. i.imgur.com/EosHLDS.jpgimgur.com/LLNzp3P |
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Peas 2018
May 26, 2018 11:16:09 GMT -5
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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on May 26, 2018 11:16:09 GMT -5
rowan, Nice! Sounds like a good find! It's always good to trial new varieties. And if you found new pest resistance for your conditions that sounds like a win! I tried some pea crosses this morning. Then it got too hot. I woke up too late. The crosses i tried were: Red snap x yellow Red snap x purple ( templeton 's Heather) Yellow x red snap Orange pod x red snap Orange pod x yellow Canoe (12 peas per pod) X large pod Large pod x canoe Large pod x red snap Large pod x yellow I think. That feels like more than i did haha. I didn't do every reciprocal cross, but i did some. I should try crossing my purple passion hybrid next. Edit: one of the tall hybrids in the orange-pod dwarfs has light purple pods.. so thats is interesting. Sounds like a cross i would attempt just to see. Actually.. could be red snap. Cross i did last year as the yellow and orange would dissapear at first.
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Peas 2018
May 27, 2018 15:14:40 GMT -5
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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on May 27, 2018 15:14:40 GMT -5
Took a quick look at the peas just now. I have a nice red pod developing. But i also have 1 plant in the reds that had pure yellow pods Oh, well. I knew some yellows would still segregate out from time to time. One VERY interesting development is from the tall earliest flowering purple passion F2 hybrid. It has purple pods!!! How can this be? I mean, the original purple passion was supposed to have purple seeds AND purple pods, but my PP strain never did, only purple seeds. And im pretty sure the more domestic parent was Mighty Midget, which has green pods. AND last year, the F1 did not have purple pods. At least im pretty sure they didn't. I guess things were so jumbled i could have missed that. But i don't think so. Weird. Either way, this is fascinating! I also marked that biskopens hybrid that is flowering MUCH earlier than the others. None of the other biskopens hybrids are even close to flowering. |
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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on May 29, 2018 15:47:34 GMT -5
Here's some pea photos from today.  Today's peas by Andrew Barney, on Flickr An overview of the pea plot. My what a lot of peas!  Today's peas by Andrew Barney, on Flickr A VERY NICE looking purple snow pea from templeton. I believe this is Heather, which is tall and the earliest to flower from templeton's peas. From the looks of this early purple pod this already looks to be a winner! And i'm already impressed. My personal row of "purples" which i think will mostly be a mix of Dan Quickert's Midnight Snow, and some Kapuler Sugar Magnolia's, have not yet flowered. But i hope you don't mind T if i am putting them to a bit of a purple snow pea competition this year.   Today's peas by Andrew Barney, on Flickr Here is my surprise purple pod on the very tall Purple Passion F2/F3 hybrid. It looks a bit like a sugar magnolia pod...  Today's peas by Andrew Barney, on Flickr A tall hybrid with faint purple pods in the dwarf orange-pod stand.  Today's peas by Andrew Barney, on Flickr a nice red pod, with the thin snap pod shape i don't like (what carol deppe calls a half-snap). Still, very good red color. Almost maroon without the sun to shine through.  Today's peas by Andrew Barney, on Flickr A nice yellow, partially red snow looking pea in the "sweet yellows" stand. This one has good potential. And given the partial red color, i suspect this is a backcross between the thin red snap and a yellow snow pea. By backcrossing red pods to either yellow or purple pods it can greatly speed up breeding of red pods. In my case, i have a good red "half-snap" but i don't like it's pod shape so i'm more after a red snow or a better shaped red snap.  Today's peas by Andrew Barney, on Flickr The fully yellow "half-snap" that segregated out in the red snap row. Edit: templeton, p.s. we had a heavy rain storm with hail yesterday. Joni's Taxi and Heather were most affected by getting some droopy leaves that almost looks like sun scald and crispy leaves that curl. But i think it's hail damage. The only other pea i noticed affected was "Large Podded". Most of the others, and the watermelons took it like champs. I wonder if that is because your varieties are bred for Australian climate and just don't have "hail resistance" or what. Or alternatively if the best snow peas with lack of fibre in the pod Also means more tender leaves more prone to leaf damage. That's actually what I'm thinking. But that also might mean yours have superior ppvv melt-in-your-mouth snow pea genetics. I'll have to taste test and see if i see a correlation. |
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Post by mskrieger on Jun 1, 2018 13:58:56 GMT -5
How gorgeous. I can't believe your peas are so huge, flowering and fruiting already! Mine are only 10 inches tall or so. Weather, weather, weather...now that it's getting hot, they'll probably plotz before producing much. So I continue to enjoy gazing at yours. Keep the pictures coming!
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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on Jun 1, 2018 23:10:39 GMT -5
How gorgeous. I can't believe your peas are so huge, flowering and fruiting already! Mine are only 10 inches tall or so. Weather, weather, weather...now that it's getting hot, they'll probably plotz before producing much. So I continue to enjoy gazing at yours. Keep the pictures coming! haha. ok, will do. www.flickr.com/gp/57674169@N04/27d48h Andrew's Peas, June 1st. Loveland, Colorado. by Andrew Barney, on Flickr  Andrew's Peas, June 1st. Loveland, Colorado. by Andrew Barney, on Flickr  Andrew's Peas, June 1st. Loveland, Colorado. by Andrew Barney, on Flickr  Andrew's Peas, June 1st. Loveland, Colorado. by Andrew Barney, on Flickr  Andrew's Peas, June 1st. Loveland, Colorado. by Andrew Barney, on Flickr  Andrew's Peas, June 1st. Loveland, Colorado. by Andrew Barney, on Flickr  Andrew's Peas, June 1st. Loveland, Colorado. by Andrew Barney, on Flickr  Andrew's Peas, June 1st. Loveland, Colorado. by Andrew Barney, on Flickr  Andrew's Peas, June 1st. Loveland, Colorado. by Andrew Barney, on Flickr  Andrew's Peas, June 1st. Loveland, Colorado. by Andrew Barney, on Flickr  Andrew's Peas, June 1st. Loveland, Colorado. by Andrew Barney, on Flickr  Andrew's Peas, June 1st. Loveland, Colorado. by Andrew Barney, on Flickr |
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Post by steev on Jun 4, 2018 20:46:47 GMT -5
Those are some pleasing peas, for sure.
My own are not suffering at all from the heat, since rabbits ate them all; I shot the first, but the second got away, showing me where they were getting in.
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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on Jun 6, 2018 22:37:10 GMT -5
I've been tasting a lot of peas. Most are of moderate size, but some still do not have pods (mostly the mummys and biskopens related).
Out of the purples, Midnight Snow might be slightly sweeter than Templetons peas including Heather, Delta Dusk, and Jupiter. I don't know if I've tried pods from Delta Dusk yet. All three, Midnigt Snow, Heather, and Jupiter are all excellent purple snow peas, though more palatable when younger vs. older.
Joni's taxi has a rather weird curling habit with twisted pods because the pods get stuck in the flower. I am waiting to see how big they actually get but they too are best when eaten young.
Some of the yellow snaps have actually been quite good Despite my dislike for that pod shape.
I found one rather large green snap pod that is VERY unusual for my garden that may be a cross i did. I need to mark that line and study it and do a grow out.
I have some yellow snow peas that have good potential in my batch. Need to get a little bigger for me to judge palatability.
Of my tasting of random pods i'd say most are decent, some snaps with strings, some without, most of the snow peas better young than old, and a few shell peas.
I have two interesting mummy type peas in my sweet yellows row, so i am excited to see if i get an umbellatum type with yellow pods!
The winner for best tasting peas that can be harvested as a whole snow pea even when fully grown, has the largest pods, and could even be eaten as a shelling pea with excellent flavor goes to my selection of "Large Podded". These must have the ppvv gene type since none of the other snow peas come close. These are an adapted mix of Carouby de maussaune from Canada, Bijou from England, and a pea i can not remember from the Kapulers in Oregon. Who knows what ultimately survived those early harsh years where they all nearly died. But whatever i have now is excellent.
While i like the bold color of the purples and reds i think ultimately i like the yellows better so I'm going to devote more time to those crosses in tree future. A large podded yellow snow pea with the above traits would be excellent. An umbellatum yellow pea would also be awesome!
An interesting observation today is that while the reds and some yellow snaps are loosing the brightness of the yellow pod color, the orange podded peas are showing the orange color now through green pods. I really do think orange podded gene with the yellow podded gene could produce a superior longer lasting yellow-golden pea. So i am going to pursue such a cross.
More pictures hopefully to come tomorrow.
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Post by templeton on Jun 9, 2018 1:00:33 GMT -5
Hi Andrew,
thanks for all the pictures. I'm flat out with writing but do stick my head in from time to time. Keep up the good work.
T
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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on Jun 10, 2018 14:42:31 GMT -5
Report June 10th, 2018. Mighty Midget Full height 12”. Full pods. Shell. Orange-Pods full height 15-18”. orange pods can be seen quite brightly. Red-Snaps height: 34-48”. NAP 36”. Pods not full yet. Canoe 22-24”. hyper tendril. Large Podded Mix 43-48”. Heavy Yellowing leaves. Full pods, VERY TASTY (even when large). #1 taste winner! Yellows Mix: 44-48”. Yellowing leaves. Purple Passion F2. 62” Jupiter 27-34” dark green foliage. Slight fibre. Delta Dusk. 32” dark green foliage. Slight fibre. Heather 48-56”. Yellowing foliage. Slight fibre. Joni’s Taxi, 56” Long Pods. Yellowing foliage. Pods medium soft. Slight fibre but less. Occasional bitter complex to pods. Midnight Snow Average 60”. 43-63”. Best flavor of the purples. Has inflated pods gene. Decently soft. But pods are no longer deep purple. More a half green-half purple. Yellowing foliage. Biskopens Hybrids? 36-50” Some have flowered, some have not. True Mummys? 40-58”. Some have flowered, some have not. Heavily-Branched. Not much branching. Most have flowered. Pink flowers mostly faded from heat. 39-50”  Peas, june 10th, 2018. by Andrew Barney, on Flickr Mighty Midget  Peas, june 10th, 2018. by Andrew Barney, on Flickr Orange-Podded  Peas, june 10th, 2018. by Andrew Barney, on Flickr Red Snaps  Peas, june 10th, 2018. by Andrew Barney, on Flickr Red Snaps  Peas, june 10th, 2018. by Andrew Barney, on Flickr Red Snaps  Peas, june 10th, 2018. by Andrew Barney, on Flickr Large Podded  Peas, june 10th, 2018. by Andrew Barney, on Flickr Large Podded  Peas, june 10th, 2018. by Andrew Barney, on Flickr Jupiter (I think)  Peas, june 10th, 2018. by Andrew Barney, on Flickr Delta Dusk (I think)  Peas, june 10th, 2018. by Andrew Barney, on Flickr Heather  Peas, june 10th, 2018. by Andrew Barney, on Flickr Another Heather, i think from the other side.  Peas, june 10th, 2018. by Andrew Barney, on Flickr Joni's Taxi.  Peas, june 10th, 2018. by Andrew Barney, on Flickr Joni's Taxi.  Peas, june 10th, 2018. by Andrew Barney, on Flickr Joni's Taxi.  20180610_101442 by Andrew Barney, on Flickr Midnight Snow (there may be a Sugar Magnolia mixed in)  20180610_101513 by Andrew Barney, on Flickr Midnight Snow (there may be a Sugar Magnolia mixed in)  20180610_101449 by Andrew Barney, on Flickr Midnight Snow (there may be a Sugar Magnolia mixed in)  20180610_101431 by Andrew Barney, on Flickr I think this is "Heavily-branched", if it is it is some sort of descendant from Salmon-Flowered. If it is not, it is Salmon-Flowered directly. |
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I'm not sure what happened. Perhaps something that is temp dependant? It has been cold and rainy the last two days.
