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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Aug 28, 2018 9:24:09 GMT -5
Good project William:
If the difficulty of using S peruvianum in interspecies hybrids is due to seed size, then S pennellii seeds are a close match.
I planted one S habrochaites plant inside the S peruvianum patch last year. It flowered but did not set fruits.
I planted one S pennellii plant in the mixed species crossing block this year. It is supposedly self-incompatible, but set lots of seeds. Most likely pollen donors were selfing, S peruvianum, or interspecies crosses: [domestic X pennellii], [domestic X habrochaites]. Less likely sources were pimpinelifolium, cheesmanae, habrochaites, corneliomulleri. There were other pennellii plants growing in the greenhouse. I don't know what the likelihood is of pollen exchange from inside the greenhouse.
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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on Aug 28, 2018 14:39:34 GMT -5
Sheesh. Too many similar threads  I think starting this thread is a great idea. But yes, good idea. I think starting with those that May already have S. Chilense in their ancestry to be a great idea. But there might be a way to bypass the incompatibility factors by pollinating young flowers (-5 days) that using a bridge like S. Chilense may not be needed. academic.oup.com/jxb/article-pdf/64/1/265/17130455/ers324.pdfvanderknaaplab.uga.edu/files/Bedinger_Sex_Plant_Review.pdfHere are the ones with peruvianum or chilense ancestry i know about: LA1996 (what I've been calling AFT)
The one from Peace Seeds...
And supposedly one called purple smudgeS. peruvianum used to be one "species" which included: S. arcanum = L. peruvianum f. humifusum S. peruvianum = L. peruvianum S. huaylasense = L. peruvianum S. corneliomulleri = L. peruvianum f. glandulosum P.s. i wonder if peruvianum x habrochiates might work better one way, with the Peruvianum being the mother. Last year I had a Peruvianum interplanted with a habrochiates that set fruit early. The other peruvianum set lots of fruit later on. Both habrochiates took a long time to set fruit and were about 10-15 feet apart. |
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Post by raymondo on Aug 28, 2018 17:50:17 GMT -5
Another method I’ve read about william is to use non-viable pollen of the seed parent mixed with pollen of the desired pollen parent. Apparently the stigma is fooled into thinking the right sort of pollen has landed on it. Just have to render some pollen non-viable without destroying it. I think I’ve mentioned this before somewhere but the tomato Burnley Bounty is supposed to have S. peruvianum in its parentage. I have no idea what percentage. It may be miniscule but it might be worth a try. |
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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on Aug 28, 2018 20:15:18 GMT -5
I think I’ve mentioned this before somewhere but the tomato Burnley Bounty is supposed to have S. peruvianum in its parentage. I have no idea what percentage. It may be miniscule but it might be worth a try. I tried buying that variety. I can't remember if i recieved it and planted it or if i was unable to get it. I feel like i did plant it in the main patch last year. .. now i need to review my old posts... Edit: according to my email i bought it from Southern Harvest from AU. So i do remember planting it in the patch. Not sure i have any seed left though. Maybe i should order it again. I think it seemed pretty domestic and red if i remember. |
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andyb
gardener
Posts: 179
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Post by andyb on Aug 28, 2018 22:18:51 GMT -5
Sheesh. Too many similar threads So many awesome threads! I'm really enjoying following along with the projects I'm not actively involved with. |
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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on Aug 28, 2018 22:37:15 GMT -5
Side question. ... could grafting help?
I was just thinking about how s. Chilense did not grow well or set flowers or fruit the one time i grew it. And species like S. Galapagense are daylength sensitive and are also hard to get flowers and fruit. Could grafting to a domestic influence them to thrive?
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Post by raymondo on Aug 29, 2018 1:09:29 GMT -5
Side question. ... could grafting help? I was just thinking about how s. Chilense did not grow well or set flowers or fruit the one time i grew it. And species like S. Galapagense are daylength sensitive and are also hard to get flowers and fruit. Could grafting to a domestic influence them to thrive? Didn’t Michurin (?sp) use grafting to aid in wide crosses? |
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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on Sept 11, 2018 20:30:37 GMT -5
Well, one semi interesting result from the September 5th pollinations. My attempted cross to a BC1 habrochaites failed. All four flowers had developed absiscion layers to the point where a slight touch caused them to fall. The penelli x domestic looks a better mother as does the Blue Ambrosia domestic mothers. 19 more days to harvest for embryo extraction. Supposed to get down to 35 Sunday. My mothers might get dug up if small or pruned and finish development in a vase! Nice. Looking good. I took a few cuttings for Maybe winter growing |
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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on Sept 22, 2018 12:18:00 GMT -5
William (bluemeadow), i noticed you said your [blue ambrosia x peruvianum] crosses seem to be taking on permies. Interesting if true, but if true it might be because blue fruited tomatoes have both genetics from chilense and cheesmaniae and already have a more wild tomato genome than traditional domestic tomatoes.
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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on Sept 22, 2018 15:32:44 GMT -5
William, oh it was just a passing idea. No need to dig it up. I'm not sure the tiny pear fruits are really the best domestic tomatoes you want to breed with wild tomatoes anyway. Probably better to choose a larger domestic tomato to breed with wild ones so you can try to recover large recombinant fruits down the line. One benefit of determinate types is they are better for indoor growing or hydroponics, but indeterminate types would have more flowers to work with. LA1996 is a determinate with decent sized fruit and production, the cheesmaniae hybrid from terrior seeds (which might have better flavor and production than even sungold?) is a very bushy indeterminate that produces lots of flowers and fruit in abundance. Golden Tressette is probably a good candidate too. Is it like Alan's other "centerflor" tomatoes? I've grown those from him before.
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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on Sept 22, 2018 15:37:29 GMT -5
Sacred Succulents carries S. chilense ( it is under Lycopersicon chilense) I got a packet of the S. Chilense from sacred succulents planted three seeds of it just now, hoping for a winter plant. Seeds are dark brown and about the size of domestic tomato seeds. Plan is to keep them year round in pots to try to get flowering sometime. Also planted S. Pimpinillifolium because of What Dar said on Tom's board, and Sweet Cherriette because the plants can be quite small and I think will do well in pots- transferring ultra short seasonality seems like a good move. For the pimp and cherriette I didnt dig out seed, I just picked a berry of each and squished it into the pot- should work and oddly fun. Also have Golden Tressette planted, and new Peruvianum and Blue Ambrosia already up. Transplanted Blue Ambrosia, Hab x domestic, Penellii x domestic, and Peruvianum are all doing fine. One of the pollinations with peruvianum pollen on Blue Ambrosia from the eighth is definitely swelling into a tomato, not sure if the timing will work for tissue culture on the 25th day of development with conflicts, if not I will let it mature and hope. The open pollinated tomato I left on the Penellii x domestic is turning red- it will be the second from the plant not counting the ones I picked too early. Here is a picture I uploaded to permies.com  One interesting thing about this fruit is that it looks to me like it could have one copy of the aft gene. This shows up better in real life than the photo. A second interesting thing is that it is fuzzy. That fruit looks more yellow-gold colored to me than red, and it's too hard to make out any anthocyanin color from the photo, but it is still the most yellow-gold color of any from that line we have seen yet, so seems pretty cool. I wonder how it tastes. Perhaps you can save the seeds and then eat whatever remains for tasting? Will be interesting to see what it looks like when fully ripe. |
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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on Sept 22, 2018 15:50:42 GMT -5
I figure it for fully ripe now, I picked it today and set it in a seed saving pile (paper lunch sack really). Actually picked a few from the same plant in early August before they changed color. Seeds weren't fully developed yet, they shrank when I dried them. I don't know anything about golden tressette yet outside of the description in the seed listing. It's Also interesting because it seems to have no cracking/splitting. A very nice looking tomato. |
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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on Sept 22, 2018 16:22:45 GMT -5
It's Also interesting because it seems to have no cracking/splitting. A very nice looking tomato. Actually it totally has a crack. Have you had cracking in yours? In The F1 they all had cracking. There is a photo on here somewhere that shows it. The Anasazi tomato i really like has cracking as well, but it has fantastic flavor and has green seed gel and the green shoulders gene, so I've kept it despite the cracking. But i want to breed it with LA1996. |
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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on Sept 24, 2018 7:48:27 GMT -5
Today I received one of my two seed purchases for the year. It was wild tomatoes from Peace Seeds. Solanum peruvianum Solanum habrochaites, v typicum Solanum lycopersicum, Golden Tressette Tomato A beautiful indeterminate original cultivar with clusters of orange cherry sized fruits of unique and excellent flavor. The flowering clusters generally have 20-40 fruits per tress. This new cultivar has both Solanum pimpinellifolium and Solanum chilense in its ancestry.The other purchase contains cactus seeds and Solanum chilense from Sacred Succulents. Reading old threads found this. Wonder how the golden tressette did for Joseph? A plant is just germinating for me. Chilense from sacred succulents hasn't had long enough to germinate. I spent some time staring at my four big tomato plants I dug up today. The fruits on the blue ambrosia I pollinated on the tenth with peruvianum pollen are much much bigger than those on the two hybrids. I suspect I've lucked out and found a somewhat compatible plant. I might be able to squeeze in a tissue culture day on the third, depends on how things work out with timing and phenology for work contract stuff. Not sure how long it will take for one fruit. If you have, it's also possible embryo rescue may not be necessary. I understand you going ahead to try, but perhaps your next fruit will make it to maturity. |
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Sept 25, 2018 2:04:21 GMT -5
Wonder how the golden tressette did for Joseph? That phenotype hasn't showed up in my garden. I don't know if that means that I didn't plant it, or that it failed to get established. |
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