If you have, it's also possible embryo rescue may not be necessary. I understand you going ahead to try, but perhaps your next fruit will make it to maturity.
Next fruit definitely will because of work conflicts. Fair evidence already though that probably will have a loss of viability sometime in development. I put a lot of mixed pollen including Peruvianum on Blue Ambrosia stigmas in 2017 got lots of domestic hybrids, no wild crosses. That could be a pollen competition thing, or it could be and seems more probably, the well documented breakdown of the hybrid seed in many cases after the 25th day.
Last Edit: Sept 24, 2018 8:06:11 GMT -5 by William
I had a class under Dr. Carl Clayberg. He was a bean breeder at that time, but he had been a noted tomato breeder. He commented in a lecture that domestic tomatoes were very hard to cross with S. peruvianum and S. Chilense, and that it had been thought for years that the F1 was just as hard to cross. Then it was discovered that unrelated F1 plants were quite interfertile. Bear in mind that if you are working for years on crossing something with zero success that "quite fertile" might mean something like 2% fertile. So I don't know how fertile the F1 plants are. I'm set up for tissue culture, and I've thought about trying these crosses. It is very easy to think about things. Tomato crosses are one of the easiest things in the world to think about.
If my crosses survive, I may need some unrelated F1s.
I have another peruvianum plant that's been in the greenhouse all summer. It got left behind, it is about to bloom for the first time. Then I have two new germinates. Should help a little. Maybe I can get a different peruvianum plant x golden tressette or something before spring. So last night I found a couple new flowers getting close on the two interspecies hybrids. So made new crosses, also gently tested and easily broke off the prior attempts. If this new set fails as well, I will let the next flowers mature and try different crosses with them perhaps with each other. Also opened up that new red fruit from the penellii cross. No seeds in it. Taste was red tomatoey with some unpleasantness.
Last Edit: Sept 25, 2018 13:35:12 GMT -5 by William
Dug up another tomato plant today. A BC1 habrochaites. I noticed it resprouting from the base yesterday so I figured it's a chance to change my mind. I want to try using it as a pollen parent on the Peruvianum plant. I tried using Peruvianum pollen on this same plant and that didn't work. So l want to test if Peruvianum should be the mother. Will be awhile before it blooms again.
Work for a contract and a head cold are interfering, I think I am going to let the first three tomates mature even though the prospect of getting a viable mature seed may be a remote one. Hopefully I will get more chances to do an embryo rescue in November and December.
The latest pollination attempts using the penellii and hab hybrids as mothers with peruvianum pollen are failing again based on yellowing. The hab hybrid produced a couple flowers, tried extracting pollen, hopefully just not ready yet- hopefully not male sterile. Plan to try using them now as pollen parents on the peruvianum, though that may be unlikely. Also will try crossing them to produce some hab x domestic x penellii x domestic seed.
Extremely interesting post on this subject from Tom Wagner's board. There is a link towards the end to a very interesting article about the bridge lines mentioned and another using S. Chilense.
I've received seed from TGRC for the following two Solanum arcanum mentioned in the article LA1708 LA2172 and seed for the Solanum chilense mentioned in the article LA1932
My plan for the seed is to attempt to recreate the bridge line affect the authors mentioned. Though first things first, it will be necessary to increase, and share seed within our community of traditional plant breeders for these valuable bridge line accessions.
I've just returned from a work trip. My four tomatoes pollinated with Peruvianum pollen are all past the embryo rescue date. So going to let them mature on the extremely unlikely chance that the cross will go to mature seed. Unfortunately while I was gone my main pollen donor Peruvianum plant has lost all of its flowers. I wish I had refrigerated some pollen come to think of it. I read somewhere a couple weeks ago that tomato pollen can be stored quite awhile.
Last Edit: Oct 18, 2018 20:11:40 GMT -5 by William
This tomatoville thread suggests putting a bit of cotton in a microcentrifuge tube adding pollen, letting dry overnight in fridge, then simply freezing. This seems replicable.
CACL2 mentioned in the other article is readily available for home brewing and other uses. I'm not clear on its proper use- how to keep it separate from the pollen. Maybe a layer of CACL2, a plug of cotton, then a layer of pollen?
Edit: Looked up in "Breed Your Own Vegetable Varieties" Carol uses those little pill capsules and silica gel beads. Dries at room temp for a couple hours, then freezes with fresh gel. It's easy from past experience to get rechargeable color changing silica gel beads online.
So a couple easily replicable ways to do this!
I think this would be a great idea for working with determinates like Jagodka and Big Hill. Collecting Peruvianum pollen en masse for winter breeding while abundant in the late summer/fall garden. Working with Chilense for bridging if can get it to flower to extend period of availability.
I found some fruits of Pennelli x Fern F2. They are tiny. Not sure if they conain viable seeds.
They look to have potential to me. I would let them ripen more (except for the top four) before trying to extract and ferment the seeds. I just seed saved some Hab x domestic that had been sitting in a paper bag for quite awhile.
My peruvianum project is dead in the water for lack of flowers. I have four fruits that went past the date of embryo rescue and they look ok, but if they mature a viable seed I will feel like I have one the lottery! I think they have awhile to go before they may ripen, though they are to the stage where I expect tomatoes picked green to ripen so I think they will eventually even if the parent plant dies over the holidays. I wonder if simply emasculating and pollinating hundreds of fruits would beat the odds? If all else fails I will resume the project with fresh plants that I can reasonably expect to survive to out-planting early next year.