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Post by Alan on Sept 24, 2007 18:18:27 GMT -5
Hey, I don't know how many people here may already be taking a look at seed prices for next years crop but I have already been doing a little snooping and what I have seen has completly terrified me!!!!!!
Hybrid Sweet Corn seed next year will be up 30-40% or more come January 1'st. The reason, from what I have been told by more than one seed company is that farmers "claim" that they can make more money raising field corn for ethanol than they can growing sweet corn for seed crops. Let me be the first to interject and claim....."Bullshit"........we all know ethanol is a great idea but we also know that there is not enough acerage in production as the system exists at the moment to produce this ethanol crop and there will not be untill the government starts paying former farmers to farm land which has set dormant for years to produce field corn for ethanol......at which time I will accept higher prices......I smell "big seed companies" all over this...Anyone else.
Regardless, it just backs up my agenda to breed, de-hybridize and advance copy-left seed and open pollinated public domain seed. The only reason currently that I grow anything hybrid as a cash crop (the only one being sweet corn) is because we live in a nation that demands sweet corn taste like a jar of sugar and last in a refrigerated enviroment in a non-starchy state for 7-14 days!!! To me......that is somewhat disgusting......but then again...I don't mind seeing a corn worm every once in a while as a sighn of a good, chemical free product (with limitations of course) either. So, I guess for the most part, this year I'll be growing open pollinated and or de-hybridizing/segragating selections for a cash crop and use the opporotunity to inform and educate my customers about the advantages of using these products fresh and why the color spectrum is so much wider than "yellow, white, and bi-color". Don't get me wrong, "Seneca arrowhead", "Early Sunglow" and "Silver King" will still get some acerage this year, but not like before.
A friend of mine recently had some sweet corn (last weekend) keep in mind that we are 10 inches behind on rain for the year, and it is now late september which is generally "out of season" for anything that naturally resembling, tasting like, or being as healthy as sweet corn. However, he had corn which was large ears (silver king size), filled to the tip with golden and white kernals and not a worm on it............I don't know how much industrial fertilizer he put on it (he did) with the prices like they are, nor how much of a particularly harsh pesticide he put to it, not to mention the fact that this particular strain of sweet corn was "BT" protein enhanced, that is it was a GMO and the price of seed had to be rediculous (not to mention in no way good for us as a human race or those who choose to eat this monstrocity) In other words, I know the money wasn't there in producing this corn, but then again neither was the "eco-logical" ideal or a general "moral" agenda of what may or may not be ok to sell to people without it being labled. I won't lie, I helped him sell it at market but I also took the time to inform folks what type of corn and production practices went into it, and indeed some of them still bought and consumed this corn. Point being, I just don't see how you can A. Make money off of the amount of irragation, commercial fertilizer, and seed costs required to produce this crop and B. it didn't seem to matter to these farmers or some lesser educated consumers so I know that my drop in the pond as far as OP/Public domain seed goes won't hurt the big seed economy any and I know some folks may have the large, super-sugary sweet ears of corn that lesser informed public wants, but I'll be able to sleep better at night, save more money and therefore make more money that those type of "farmers", as well, I'll be taking care of my earth for "seven generations". Just some thoughts from a guy..(sory for the rambling) -alan
I guess it all comes down to when:
Idealism Vs. Capatilism and the alienation that occurs when this happens (and nowhere does this probably happen more than in the food industry, at least tobacco products have warnings), don't get me wrong, I realize folks have to make money, but they need to be smart, respectfull, reasonable, and thoughtfull and most importantly content when doing so.
-Alan
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Post by johno on Sept 25, 2007 11:18:18 GMT -5
I was just reading last night about the ethanol/higher prices issue. Here's a quote from Front Porch:
"A food & Agriculture Policy Research Institute analysis has shown ethanol has had no impact on food prices in 2007-2007. However, the study does predict a 0.2-per-cent rise in the food section of the 2008 Consumer Price Index (a standard measure of inflation in the U.S) and a 0.5-percent rise for '09."
So as far as ethanol production driving up corn prices, I concurr, absolute B.S.!
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Post by bluelacedredhead on Sept 25, 2007 14:46:29 GMT -5
Rates right up there with the excuse a friend of ours was getting in the suburban St. Louis, MO area this past winter for grain being so expensive at his local feed outlet. Seems that the fact that the Mississippi River freezing over was driving up prices?? I'd bet that the grain in their warehouse had been there long before the temperatures even thought about dropping below freezing? I'm with Johno..It's just a pile, lol
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Post by Alan on Sept 25, 2007 21:27:08 GMT -5
Yeah, weve gotten that excuse about the Ohio river here in Indiana before too.....now maybe if everything was ferried accross I could understand it, otherwise though....NO.
It's all about keeping somebody elses gravy train a rolin' anymore and uncle sam/other governmental bodies don't care and won't intervene 'cause it would put a quick stop to their own trains.
Given some time I feel I can mostly remove myself from the grid (except for that internet addiction) and make a decent living from myself, greed has really destroyed the United States of America and once I've helped pay off my parents series of debts I don't plan on digging that hole for myself.
-Alan
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Post by canadamike on Dec 18, 2007 5:36:05 GMT -5
ALAN:
I read tonight about your forum, and I just registered here. I was having a ''discussion'' about sweet corn on the Baker Creek forum when I heard about your ( or somebody else's) work on de-hybridising corn.
I am very interested, especially in multi-color sweet corn. Am I in the good spot?
Keep the good work, Michel
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Post by Alan on Dec 18, 2007 12:28:47 GMT -5
Yep, you are definetly in the right spot. I do a lot of corn breeding work which I started about three years ago, just sort of playing around, this year I made a huge mass cross of multiple types of colored sweet corns with different days to maturity, sugar profiles, and tolerances, it's experimental name is "Astonomy Domine". I offer it here for trade or SASE if you would like a sample P.M. me and we will work something out. You can also check out the thready in de-hybridization and breeding forum called "cornography" where Johno and I discuss our ideas for this particular line of breeding material.
-Alan
By the way welcome to Homegrown Goodness, be sure to introduce yourself to everyone in the about me section.
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Post by canadamike on Dec 18, 2007 20:07:09 GMT -5
I am a computosaurus, and very new to forums. I can't chat, it happens so fast it makes me dizzy, and the language level is so primitive and unsophisticated that nobody can say ''my mom'' without making three millions spelling errors. English is not my natural language, the toy I am putting my fingers on seems to be full of promises, but searching through it as natural to me as kissing Mr. Evil Lizard man.
So... would you be kind enough to tell me where I can find cornography and the ''about me'' section, I could not find it. And what does ''PM me'' means? I am french speaking and I am sorry if I miss it sometimes...
By the way, I have 5 pounds of MERLIN seeds from Stokes, a very productive se that has 22 rows of very deep but small kernels, and 2 or 3 cobs ( the 3rd being smaller when it is there). It is a huge cob, and it is both sweet and tasty ( for the folks down south that prefer ''corny'' to sweet). I did not plant them this year because they are treated, and I wanted the half acre of land where I planned to plant them to be certifiable, even though I will never ask for certification because I am a hobbyist, albeit an extreme one. I will nevertheless plant some next year in a patch of land that was used by a soya producer ( very un-organic), if the fellow cornographers help me go through the process of de-hybridizing them. I will ''organic them '' quite gladly.
Alan, I am willing to trade or pay, it does not matter. I have a limited amount of many tomato seeds, but I could spare only 5 or 10 of most of them, I resumed gardening last year after having moved 4 times. Nevertheless, last season I had 130 tomato plants, almost half of them being PRINCIPE BORGHESE. They are very very productive, absolutely not determinate in my garden ( 5 TO 6 feet high and branching like hell, with continuous production). I dried many 5 gallons buckets of them. But the interesting thing is that I only kept seeds of the double ones, the siamese like some people say, or frankly, the BEEFSTEAKS (of some sort since they are small plums). It should prove interesting next year and in the years to come.
Please ''PM'' me , but after you explained to me what ''PM'' means.
Yours friendly,
Michel
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Post by johno on Dec 18, 2007 20:52:13 GMT -5
alanbishop.proboards60.com/index.cgi?board=experiment&action=display&thread=1191299253Click that - I think that will take you straight to "Cornography." But you can find that thread under the heading, "Hybridization and Segregation experiments." On the home page, fourth up from the bottom in the "Other Hobbies" section, is the "a little about yourself" forum. PM means Private Message. At the very top of the home page on the right, you will see "Hey canadamike, you have ____ messages" highlighted in blue. If you want to check your messages, you click there. If you want to send a message, you can click on the recipient's name, then click on "send personal message." I look forward to hearing your ideas!
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Post by bluelacedredhead on Dec 18, 2007 21:31:23 GMT -5
Michel, Chat here is not 'fast'. You can sit back and just read what the rest of us carry on about, or you can 'speak up' when you feel comfortable and have something to say. Maybe when you get to know us all a little better you will join us? How did you dry tomatoes, in the oven or a dehydrator? I would love to try to sun dry some, but once I thought of doing so, it had turned wet and cold. Next year perhaps.
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Post by canadamike on Dec 18, 2007 23:22:49 GMT -5
Dear bluelacedredhead:
I dry them in a cheap dehydrator. The results are great, but it takes time. I am considering buying a ''semi-pro dehydrator''. When you do stuff like canning or dehydrating, well...go big or go broke!
Both are extremely satifiying experiences, but when volume gets into the equation, as is my case, small tools can deter you from preserving in any way forever, doubt the usefullness or harvesting a lot of stuff and deter you away from the whole purpose.
My friend went big many years ago and canned 200 jars of tomato in a day. It took me weeks, at my small almost leasurely pace to can 60. had my lesson. It is like making chineese spring rolls. If you have to make some, make 50 of them, it will take you as much time than making 5...well... maybe just a bit more.
By the way, if you dry roma tomatoes ( the most overvalued of all tomatoes, and I mean the real ROMA variety, do not cut them in half like you do for real drying tomatoes like PRINCIPE BORGHESE, which are nothing but a small plum, albeit way more productive. Slice them thin enough so they don't touch the rack above them. they kind of stick there. When you dry a lot , it gets on your nerves.
I guess it makes a lot of difference if you dry or can ''some'' or if you REALLY do it to fill all or most of your needs for the year.
Yours friendly,
Michel
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Post by bluelacedredhead on Dec 19, 2007 0:04:22 GMT -5
I haven't canned tomatoes in years. Too much work. I just wash them, core them, and freeze them. But for fun I would like to try to dry them. Something to look forward to in 2008.
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Post by Alan on Dec 19, 2007 1:38:03 GMT -5
Johno and bluelaced, thanks for providing the info while I was away, I really appreciate it.
Michel, no need to pay, you can send something in trade if you would like. I'll send you a Private Message on here (P.M.) and you can send me your address and I'll get some seeds out to you, if you have any questions what so ever about de-hybridizing (or as such, further hybridizing) the sweet corn, let us know and we will be glad to help you.
Hope to see you post more on the forums, we would love to have you as a full time member.
Your friend, Alan
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Post by johno on Feb 27, 2008 0:34:37 GMT -5
This info is directed at the current BS propaganda of ethanol production driving up food prices. I believe the real problem is commodities trading, and I sincerely hope someone in this group understands it better than I do... But anyway, here's some food for thought on what might really be going on. The Grain Drain: 3 Reasons For The Current Wheat Shortage - Seeking Alpha seekingalpha.com/article/46479-the-grain-drain-3-reasons-for-the-current-wheat-shortage A slightly older article from last September... predicting what's happening now. www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/08/02/AR2007080200249.html ethanol producers respond (last summer) National Corn Growers Association - NCGA www.ncga.com/ethanol/economics/foodVsFuel.asp Corn growers point out corn for ethanol and food are different(2005) "According to a June 2007 analysis of food, energy and corn prices conducted by John Urbanchuk of LECG, LLC, “rising energy prices had a more significant impact on food prices than did corn.” In fact, the report notes rising energy prices have twice the impact on the Consumer Price Index (CPI) for food than does the price of corn." “Energy is required to produce, process, package and ship each food item. Conversely, corn prices impact just a small segment of the food market as not all products rely on corn for production. While it may be more sensational to lay the blame for rising food costs on corn prices, the facts don’t support that conclusion. By a factor of two-to-one, energy prices are the chief factor determining what American families pay at the grocery store.” www.ethanolrfa.org/resource/facts/food/"If it was not clear before, readers should now understand that the fuel versus food issue is one of rhetoric, not reality. It is unlikely that the production of meat has been affected by higher corn prices to date. In fact, there is little evidence that any food category has been affected by higher corn prices in any significant manner. Certainly it is true that some food product manufactures have claimed higher corn prices are increasing their manufacturing cost, using this as justification for raising their product prices. A notable example might be a cereal company that makes some variety of corn flakes. The value of corn going into a box of corn flakes was previously estimated to be 2.2 cents. Even if the cost of the corn doubled, it is hard to understand how this relates to an increase of 10 to 20 times that much in the price of a box of cereal. There are other examples, such as a feeder/packer complaining about how the higher price of corn has raised company costs. Yet, just a few days prior, this same company reported record high profits in its’ quarterly income statement. While there is plenty of rhetoric in the media about higher corn prices due to ethanol causing higher consumer food prices, nearly all the evidence points to other factors. The reality is that to date higher corn prices have had very little impact on consumer food prices. At some future date higher corn prices will probably be more of a factor in rising food prices, but even then the increases are likely to be moderate and extended over a period of several years. Finally, any increase in food prices will be more than offset by the diversification of our energy supplies, lower farm program payments and the improved environmental effect of utilizing ethanol. It is a win-win situation for consumers, farmers and taxpayers." Terry Francl, Senior Economist, American Farm Bureau Federation www.ncga.com/ethanol/pdfs/2007/071007_RhetoricVersusReality.pdfWorld Wheat Supply Threatened! www.ars.usda.gov/is/AR/archive/nov07/wheat1107.htm - article from USDA on research they are conducting to combat the rust strain causing the shortage. "Minneapolis wheat futures were trading at about $5.00 a bushel a year ago. Today, the March contract closed at $24 a bushel. Kazakhstan released news today that they would limit their wheat exports, which will funnel more demand to US wheat. That sent futures prices rocketing nearly 25 percent today." 2/25/08 commodities.about.com/
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Post by flowerpower on Feb 27, 2008 22:44:18 GMT -5
I am going to try to store as much corn as I can this yr. Every little bit helps. And Hay too- even if I have to store it loose. (Balers are so pricey)
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Post by Alan on Feb 27, 2008 23:50:48 GMT -5
Good info Johno and much appreciated. I'm glad I am taking as many steps as I can towards self-sustainability, I just don't know how other small farmers who aren't so self-sustainable or even small business's are going to make it anymore. Hell, I don't see how the modern family is going to make it if they dont' become more self sustainable.
We are headed into very scary times I'm afraid.
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