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Post by templeton on Mar 17, 2017 2:59:22 GMT -5
hey Galina, I just planted out my December harvested red mangetouts. about 6 different lines i think, 12 plants each. The summer harvest was dreadful, and too late to taste them, so I'm just going with 'crushable pod' and redness. I actually like the half reds better than the full deep reds, so I'm happy to get whatever. More than half the lines are dwarf, too. I'm really hoping i can get a crop off before winter - so starting a few weeks earlier than i have in the past. 31C 32C 29C for the next few days - and I'm planting peas? T
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Post by richardw on Mar 17, 2017 13:36:33 GMT -5
So what happens templeton when you sow with temps around the thirty mark?, i know when i sow in those sorta temps the peas just leap outa the ground
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Post by templeton on Mar 17, 2017 19:01:08 GMT -5
i sowed a few weeks ago, richardw, soak overnight, then into peat pots so i could keep an eye on them. Grew them on in labelled trays in the shade at the back of the house. and yeah, they get away pretty quickly. I've got 70% shade draped over them for the first week or so, just while they get established, keeps the hot wind off them as much as the sun.
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Post by galina on Mar 18, 2017 2:49:21 GMT -5
Templeton, I don't think at germination time these temperatures matter. As it will soon get cooler where you are, it will hopefully be fine. Planting here like crazy at the moment as the seedling plants are about 4 inches to 5 inches tall and growing fast, but it is so cold and windy. Each plant gets a bottle cloche to protect them from voles, which have the secondary effect of some cold protection. So many F1s, F2s and further generations - garden labels and entry in gardening book with exact location just in case. This will be another exciting year in the pea garden. With regards to the red podded pea project, I have (just for one year) put aside all the seeds from the crosses with Purple Podded and with Shiraz. The outcome so far was full red pods with shelling peas and part red with mangetouts, many with a good red coverage but not the full cover of red so far. I am however planting a new F1 combination with my own bred yellow snap Charlie's Gold Snap and Alan Kapuler's Sugar Magnolia and will see what that line brings over the next few years. I need to critically compare my Golden Sweet stock that I bought decades ago from Future Foods with Golden Sweet from another source that I got from the Seed Circle more recently. I need to grow them side by side to be sure, but the newly acquired ones looked different last year. And as the originals indirectly went into my red pea project (my crosses were made with the larger yellow podded Court Estate Gold bred from that line of Golden Sweet), any different Golden Sweet lines might show up differently in red podded breeding projects. I know it is a slight thread drift, but has anybody else noticed differences in different batches of Golden Sweet? Unfortunately none of us had fully red snap pods from Jayb's cross of Sugar Magnolia x Elisabeth a pink flowered pea. I could back-cross the pink flowered F5s to Sugar Magnolia. Just thinking aloud really as I am writing, must grow a few pink flowered Sugarbeth Snap plants and make the cross happen. More sowing. Any comments on the potential of that back cross would be appreciated.
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Post by templeton on Mar 18, 2017 6:36:08 GMT -5
galina I got deep red thick podded peas last winter but had mis- scored the parents, and all the progeny had fibre. I'm skipping the snaps for a while. I have got in about 20 F1 seeds of my purple snow Jupiter crossed to Oregon Giant, so something interesting might come out of them. My hypertendril yellow snows will have to wait for a season or two - was getting close, but ran out of room to grow them this autumn. Still wondering how to distribute my finished lines now that i have kilos of seed. T
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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on Mar 18, 2017 8:04:57 GMT -5
I havn't grown Golden Sweet in quite awhile, which is a shame because it was a charming variety despite the fibre. I originally abandoned it in favor of Opal Creek Yellow snap, but i was disappointed in Opal creek not only in being a washed out yellow but also a poor small snap as well. I tried using it in some crosses two seasons ago so i might get some F2s segregating out this season.
The Sugar Magnolia x Elisabeth is cool. The pink flowered gene is interesting. I want to use it in a cross with a yellow pod and purple on top to get a peachy pod. I was able to do several crosses i think two seasons ago as well with Salmon-flowered so this season i might get all kinds of interesting things showing up. Heres hoping for a pink-flowered yellow podded umbellatum snap. Haha.
I think today is going to be my pea planting day. Spring is coming early this year got to get out and plant! I also have a written and planned location for them all. Problem is that last year i saved seed haphazardly so all the mummy peas got mixed together and i think all of joseph's red and yellows got mixed together. I might also have accidentally mixed red and purples together (hard to tell the difference when they dry down).
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Post by galina on Mar 19, 2017 4:13:29 GMT -5
templeton, Sorry you had fibre in the snap pods. You do have a big advantage of starting off with a reliable purple and have bred a reliable purple mangetout (snow) pea. I have not yet found a purple mangetout or snap that is always reliable. I had Sugar Magnolia from two different sources, one with hypertendrils that had much better all over purple, the other with normal foliage where I had to select the best purple pods for seeds. Why did you make the cross to another mangetout, Oregon giant? For disease resistance? If I remember right, you have just embarked on your own very exclusive seed distribution. Your big yellow and purples mangetouts are such good looking peas and with freezer storage or cold fridge storage the seeds should stay in top condition for at least a decade.
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Post by galina on Mar 19, 2017 4:29:41 GMT -5
keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.), I used the larger podded Court Estate Gold to breed my yellow snap. In the hope to get a massive snap. But alas it is only marginally larger than Opal Creek. And flatter than the green or purple snaps too. I don't know whether it is possible to breed a big yellow snap. With all the confusions you had over labelling, there will be a great garden for observation and evaluation for you this year. Yes dry pods are very difficult to tell apart. You need to invest in a stash of various colour wool perhaps to tie around pea stems. Sometimes two markers on the plants are needed, one for flower colour and another for pod characteristics. Good luck 'finding' all your treasures again and for some great new types also. The peachy pod colour is the rarest, much rarer than red from a cross between yellow and purple. I have yet to see that one in the garden here. Good luck with all your projects.
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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on Mar 19, 2017 8:23:09 GMT -5
Thanks galina, yeah i too have wondered if it were possible to breed a large podded snap, considering that many (if not all) snaps have smaller pods i have long suspected it would not be possible. But a large podded yellow snow would be very nice! I think i may have been able to sort them better than i said, though only time will tell. In any case even if i had managed to sort them perfectly last year i have segregating F2 crosses in some so those will be present as well. I made some crosses with salmon-flowered (and mummy white) so i'm expecting some umbelattums to show up again this season. Maybe a purple podded one? Yes, i too planted so many peas this year i needed a full sheet planting map. edit: I have lots of cross labels i can use to label which ones are the best red pods, yellow pods, etc. So maybe i will do that. Just in case i don't make it before they dry down then at least i will know what they were.
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Post by templeton on Mar 19, 2017 16:30:12 GMT -5
I think the pod size with snaps is related to tight linkage between the thick wall characteristic and the pod length gene. that is, they are close together on the same chromosome, so random variation is less likely to give a long, thick walled pod. I do like Carol Deppe's approach tho - ignore the thick pod wall, and search for a low fibre, sweet eating pod that is still good eating when the peas are swollen in the pod. She recommends Oregon Giant. I'm growing out F1 crosses to my purple at the moment.
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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on Mar 19, 2017 17:49:56 GMT -5
I have thought about ignoring the snap gene(s) completely as well. One idea i had was to try and combine the giant pod snow pea trait with a pea like Canoe that has 12 peas per pod. Not sure if that cross is possible, but would be well worth it, if it is. (Wow that was a lot of two letter words all in a row.. haha).
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Post by galina on Mar 20, 2017 2:48:48 GMT -5
Oh I don't know. Snap pods are great, especially raw. Like a crunchy radish, but much sweeter. A salad veg or only very lightly steamed, rather than cooked. Personal opinion Yes thank you for a great explanation why snaps are shorter than mangetout Templeton. And the yellows are smaller still on top of it. There are some sizeable greens and purple snaps, like Sugar Lord or Sugar Magnolia (bigger but not very much bigger). Unfortunately all my breeding was done with the smaller Amish Snap as I only got seeds of the others very recently. So I am looking forward to the SM cross grow out. Keen that is very interesting. The most seeds in a large podded mangetout pea I know of is Carouby de Maussane with 9. 12 would be very exciting indeed. If it is possible to transfer the trait for seed numbers it might well lengthen the pods. Just imagine 8 inch long mangetouts! Will watch this space for news.
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Post by galina on Mar 21, 2017 3:39:52 GMT -5
templeton, oh I get it. I had the opposite - don't really like the twisting of pods due to very low fibre, as they don't look as attractive as the slightly more fibrous mangetouts that keep their shape a bit better. Yes Oregon Giant is fibreless and therefore a good candidate to remove fibre from Jupiter. Good luck with the project. And you do incorporate the resistances of OG too. I noticed that several of the Kapuler peas, definitely Opal Creek and Sugar Magnolia, are here still producing when other peas are declining with mildew. Haven't studied OG for late cropping, but to incorporate resistance is always a good thing. To bread a pea that goes on producing all season from an early spring sowing, is one of my long term hopes and probably easier in our cool climate than in warmer areas.
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Post by templeton on Mar 21, 2017 5:01:00 GMT -5
galina, Jupiter is low fibre - the OG cross is about getting sweet green peas inside the swelling pod. And a bit bigger pod. Jupiter is highly disease resistant - it was bred out of 'Chamber of Death', the best survivor from a plant testing trial. at least for Aussie diseases. T
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Post by philagardener on Mar 21, 2017 5:42:17 GMT -5
In my garden, Opal Creek also seems to have better heat resistance than most varieties. We tend to go from winter into summer too quickly to have a long harvest from any of them.
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