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Post by Blueflint on Dec 6, 2008 13:10:57 GMT -5
This is sort of a continuation of the Bear Island Corn discussion that changed lanes a little. As many of you know I have a good amount of rare Native American crops. I try to grow these out every 2 or 3 years and now that we have moved (last fall) to our new home with more ground, this will be much easier. The problem comes with growing out rare corns. For anyone not familiar with growing corn for purity, it cross pollinates with any other corn very, very easily and must be either grown in isolation (1 mile)or to allow it to tassel/pollen shed/silk at a different time than other local corns. Otherwise it is a waist of time, seed, etc. Increasing stocks of rare corns preserves heritage and rare genetic material for plant breeders to work with. I will be sending seed to Mike, Val and Allan in the near future...please send me your mail address. For anyone else interested in growing out a rare corn...if you are interested in heritage and are dedicated to preserving the purity of the seed stock, I will be glad to share small samples. In return I ask for 12 good ears. You can keep the balance of seed to do what you want with. If there are others interested...please post here. Blueflint
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Post by cff on Dec 6, 2008 14:00:22 GMT -5
Blueflint
I would be interested - I'm only growing one other type of corn this coming year and I have a location seperate that I could grow a second verity.
Just let me know
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Post by Blueflint on Dec 6, 2008 14:12:51 GMT -5
Besides the many Native American Corn varieties I have, I also have a few heirloom Dent Corn varieties, mostly white types.
Blueflint
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Post by canadamike on Dec 6, 2008 17:27:45 GMT -5
Can I do a reverse offer and send you the ones I'll grow and find of merit, I have many heirlooms from Europe and such... one looks like a pop-corn and the kernel is redish with yellow parallel stripes. Quite a looker actually.
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Post by johno on Dec 6, 2008 17:50:04 GMT -5
Blueflint, that's some beautiful corn! Wish I could help, but I've got my hands full with corn this coming year. Maybe the year after...
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Post by Blueflint on Dec 6, 2008 19:46:23 GMT -5
Ok, here is a list of corns I am willing to share samples with for those that want to help with growing them out. Purity is number one concern!
Cherokee White Flour "Sellu-yah" (Oklahoma strain) Cherokee"De-aur-le" mixed color (Oklahoma) Miami White Flour Corn Tuscarora White Flour Six Nations Blue Long Ear Seneca Blue Bear Dance Flour Delaware Blue Flour “Sehsapsing" Wampum Flint (Mohawk) Ganondagon Flint (Seneca) Iroquois Calico Corn (a.k.a. Katie Wheeler) King Phillip Hasting's White Flint (only a few seed available)
On the dent corns, I have the following:
Morgan County White (Morgan County Kentucky) Sandy Lewis White (Scioto County Ohio) Fosters White (Scioto County Ohio) Un-named dark yellow white cap 12 row dent from Cherokee N.C. Cherokee Blue and White Dent (Oklahoma)
If someone is interested in a sample to grow out, let me know. On most of these I have day to maturity info available.
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Post by cff on Dec 6, 2008 20:20:15 GMT -5
Blueflint
Would Cherokee White Flour "Sellu-yah" be the real tall verity ?
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Post by Blueflint on Dec 6, 2008 20:42:58 GMT -5
Sellu-yah will average 8 1/2' to 9' tall. Tassels are natural colored and silks are rose to pink. Most plants do not tiller, ears are not real long, tight husks with small flags. Most ears are 10 row. From planting to pollen shed is 66 days. This plant does not get as big as Eastern Cherokee White Flour variety.
Blueflint
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Post by grungy on Dec 6, 2008 22:52:49 GMT -5
Blueflint, We plant corn early to mid May and our first killing frost occurs usually the first week of October. During the summer months, our daytime temperatures range from high 70F - 92F, and evening temperatures are in the mid 60's F, humidity is usually in the low 20's. Watering is not a problem as all our gardens are drip irrigated. Could you please tell me which ones you would recommend for our area and also give us the average days to pollen shed for those varieties. Thanks, and cheers, Val
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Post by flowerpower on Dec 7, 2008 4:46:25 GMT -5
Blueflint, is there any way I could purchase a small amt of the Tuscarora White Flour? I would not be able to return any seed. I'd just give the seed to an Iroquois man I know. He said he remembers his grandmother growing it on the rez when he was a child, and he is in his 60's. He wanted to grow it this yr, but I was unable to find any seed for him. I read the man who was maintaining the variety passed away.So I am not even sure if it is still grown in NY.
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Post by Blueflint on Dec 7, 2008 7:37:30 GMT -5
Val, You have a long enough growing season for anything I have listed. The majority I listed are fairly long season and will average 65-70 days to pollen shed though there are a couple shorter seasoned and a couple I don't know as I have never grown them myself...but I could guess pretty close.
Flowerpower, I only have one sample of the Tuscarora Flour myself as I have never been able to grow it out. John Mohawk did pass away recently. He was the champion of the Tuscarora White Flour Corn. We have lost the 3 biggest Native American corn promoters in the last couple years...what a hit. If your friend is willing to send some back to me I'll donate my sample or I can dig up a source for seed. Let me know.
Alan, I got your message and will gather up the dent samples. The white dents have a lot of possibilities. The Blue and White shows a lot of diversity. Do you still want a Shawnee Flour sample?
Blueflint
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Post by canadamike on Dec 7, 2008 16:59:55 GMT -5
This might be a stupid question, but what would be the best corn for raising meat chickens? The ''poulet de Bresse''(chicken from Bresse) in France is regarded as the best in the country.
It is raised free range and fed only corn ( apart from the grasses and bugs of course). The health of the chicken is also important for me of course. Given the diffrence in proteins, starches etc... which one is considered the best? I suspect multi-color or dark color is healthier too like for us...
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Post by Alan on Dec 7, 2008 19:56:00 GMT -5
Mike,
to my knowledge very little if any work that is public domain accessible has been done on testing the feeding of different colored strains of corn on chickens.
That being said, dent corns being higher in flour content will be easier to grind and for the chicken to digest. Yellow is good for yolk color and is also higher in protein than white. I have heard that Kculli is good for chickens because of it's 14-15% protein content and amino acid contents. Hayne would be a guy to ask this question for sure as far as giving you some tips and hints on what would be the best to feed to the chickens.
Blueflint, I will still want to grow Shawnee Flour along with the others, I may not be able to do them all this year and what I don't get planted this year I will get planted next year and still send you saved seed back. I look forward to growing these out and I am glad that you are growing so many out yourself, more people need to be working with corn diversity, so many have passed on and we have lost their work and so few are interested in preserving what is left.
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Post by flowerpower on Dec 8, 2008 5:12:59 GMT -5
Flowerpower, I only have one sample of the Tuscarora Flour myself as I have never been able to grow it out. John Mohawk did pass away recently. He was the champion of the Tuscarora White Flour Corn. We have lost the 3 biggest Native American corn promoters in the last couple years...what a hit. If your friend is willing to send some back to me I'll donate my sample or I can dig up a source for seed. Let me know. The whole situation is very sad. The man only has a small garden. It's more of a sentimental thing for him. I could not find one source for seed this yr. Let me do a little research on this. Maybe I can find a seed source here in NY. I'll let you know what I find out. Thanks
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Post by Blueflint on Dec 11, 2008 20:41:07 GMT -5
Mike,
Color, color and color. Yes there is a lot of nutrition directly linked to color, specially reds and blues. Yellow endosperm also contains carotene. Open pollinated corns also have more protein than hybrids do...basically the corn plants has to give something up for it's higher production/hybrid vigor, thus in general open pollinated corns have more protein by usually 4 to 6%. Also some corns have more"oil" content. Which is best? The only way to know would be to grow out several types, have them sent to a lab for testing for the basics...protein, fat, fiber plus a few other items. This at one time wasn't very expensive but the last time I had something tested was in the early to mid 1990's. In general...go with something colorful.
Blueflint
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