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Post by mickey on Sept 8, 2010 17:22:28 GMT -5
I only had two OSU plants survive as I planted them late. and held them in the pots too long. but here is one of the plants. Attachments:
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Post by johno on Sept 8, 2010 17:25:31 GMT -5
They look good! Mine never got much blue past the shoulders.
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Post by ozarklady on Sept 8, 2010 19:27:13 GMT -5
Jim, those look fantastic!
Mine taste fantastic, but only have blue shoulders!
And OSU has been the most drought tolerant, hardy, and least diseased of all. Not a hint of BER on them from poor watering.
I definitely plan to include them in my garden from now on!
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Post by mickey on Sept 8, 2010 23:52:06 GMT -5
The ones in the shade of the plant just have blue on top, but the ones that get the sun are doing good as far as color. I'm saving seeds and hope to do better next year.
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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on Sept 9, 2010 0:54:08 GMT -5
wow. Mickey those look fantastic!! I'd love to get some seeds from someone willing to share. I think i asked alan for some seeds at the beginning of the season, but he was out. I'm more interested in the colour over flavour, but if anyone has one with both good flavour and good colour, I'm definitely interested.
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Post by Penny on Sept 9, 2010 6:20:16 GMT -5
Those do look great!
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Post by starlight1153 on Sept 9, 2010 8:07:57 GMT -5
I have grown OSU and love it. Love to watch it grow and also to eat it.
I have seen where folks have over the years been crossing it with other purple tomatoes, but haven't read or really seen where folks have done a lot of work with it with white tomatoes. If anybody knows of crosses done with the whites would appreciate it.
I plan on doing work this year with the whites and very thin skinned cultivars. If somebody is working with whites already would like to know which ones, so I can work with a different cultivar and then maybe do some comparison.
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Post by tatermater on Sept 9, 2010 22:11:54 GMT -5
Starlight...your questions....
I rather dislike the P-20 Blue, OSU Blue, or whatever name is going to be assigned to it...maybe next year?
The P-20 Blue always has poor foliage for me, but I can correct that in the several hundred different lines of the hybrids, backcrosses, introgressions, etc. that I still ripening as I write this message.
Yeah, I have a true breeding blue with white flesh. It has a clear epidermis which makes the pale yellow flesh look white. The clear epidermis does not brown up the blue with its amber cast as the fruit ripens. Therefore my best white and blue is called Pansy Ap. I nicknamed it Pansy A** for fun. The Pansy name came to mind because of the Blue/Purple on White/Pale Yellow reminded me first of a pansy. Here is a picture that comes close to my image of such a pansy with the color of my variety...http://www.natures-desktop.com/wallpaper-previews/wildflowers/wild-pansy-flower.jpg
Since I don't know how to downsize pictures from my photo collection I will post a picture to my blog.
My, but that plant did get attention in the greenhouse! It is the first plant as hundreds of folks go through the door. But folks don't pick it because they think it will turn red. I saved about six seed for my own use but I should rob a few more fruit just for extra seed.
Tom Wagner
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Post by canadamike on Sept 9, 2010 22:43:56 GMT -5
Might I add, dear Tom, that your blue crosses are creating quite a stir at the exhibit in Cumberland, where my garden is. Some of the crosses ( F-2) are actually showing up more blue than OSU blue. They are ''tha ''star of the garden, along with upland rice...which is growing beautifully might I add... I just spent a few hours in an incredible and immensely beautiful ''restaurant, micro-brewery-museum'', with the owners, and College Belle made a few boyfriends ;D ;D ;D. You should have seen them touch and feel her Tom I think I'll rename her ''Wagner's Sensuality''
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Post by tatermater on Sept 9, 2010 23:30:30 GMT -5
Wagner's Sensuality? Are you trying to say that I apply the five senses to tomatoes too? Here is a picture of green tomatoes, yellow tomatoes, blue tomatoes, and gold tomatoes; each with a sense overlaid....http://www.valdosta.edu/~dkcullen/five%20senses.jpg
College Belle, (Old name...Join or Die) still has a color that dazzles the eyes here too.
I am looking at several candidates of blue on red tomato clones to call COVER THE EARTH kinda like the Sherwin Williams paint logo here....http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_9PZw351ewno/R1nDq5A5eNI/AAAAAAAACWc/-gsx7Rx4piA/s320/cover-the-earth.jpg
Several green flesh with blue shoulders may vie for the name Blue N Green like this picture.....http://images2.layoutsparks.com/1/195273/abstract-blue-n-green-31000.jpg
Some tomatoes are already named: Helsing Junction Blue, Alki Blue, Out of the Blue...this last one has bright red tomatoes in a sea of blue stems and leaves.
Michel, let me know if those folks up your way realize that there are many more colors under the rainbow shining the light towards the pots of gold from Everett to Rockland! Each year new rainbows will magically appear and new colors of tomatoes too!
Tom Wagner
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Post by starlight1153 on Sept 10, 2010 6:44:06 GMT -5
Tom.... LOL You sure named Pansy Ap.. right. She a cute little thing and yes, you definitely should save some more seed to grow out or have it grown out. I know it hard to grow find the time and space to grow out hundreds of plants, but I think the most enjoyable thing about hybridizing is the wondering of which seed will be the one to produce the perfect plant.
I appreciate you sharing your picture. You don't know how to downsize, I don't know how to post a pic on here or I would share some of my foliage.
Your pic does have me re-thinking again though. Blue is not a natural in Daylilies, yet it is the color so many of us work towards. To get closer and closer to that goal I have worked with whites with green throats. One of the hardest things has been getting a pure bright white with no hint of of yellow in it to get closer to a pure blue.
Ya have to forgive me as I am always thinking outside of the box. I can just imagine this perfect solid white tomato with more than blue shoulders or blue stripes.
After looking at your pic, I am wondering if a way to go (somebody may be already doing it, or there may be a tomato that turns from green to pure white , no yellow stage in it) isn't to keep back-crossing to find a pure white line. I am not even sure such a thing is possible, but since white cultivars have been developed it may just be a goal within reach down the road.
The perfect scenario would be to have an albino grow up and make the OSU/P20 crosses. I was reading some scientific article on how to develop albinos seedlings, so I may just see if I can't create a few and then try some grafting onto OSU.
One of the things I had wanted to do this year and was unable to due to major flooding ad destruction of hundreds of seedlings, was to grow out Variegated aka Splash of Cream, remove the sucker leaves showing almost the pure white and root and from them out if possible and then cross with OSU. Think it might be interesting to see what develops. So I have to start that experiment over again. Never know unless I try.
One of the things that I did notice with my OSU foliage was that as long as the temps stayed around 75degrees F and if they had some shade covering that the foliage retained it's purple color a lot longer. Once I moved them into the full sun than the foliage starting losing the purple pigment.
I had no problems with aphids, thrips, whiteflies or any of the more common pests, but I did near the very end of harvest had a major problem with leafminers. Everything was fine then one day went out and most all the plant leaves were covered with them. A mass outbreak. Had picked off each leaf and burned them.
Where the leafminers came in from I have no idea. What I thought was strange about it was that I grow hundreds of Columbines and have developed a new seedling color and they attract the leafminers, but the Columbine crop which was no where near the OSU's didn't have or get the first leafminer on them. Never saw the first fly around the plants either.
Only thing I could think of was nutty neighbor never scouts any of his plants for pests and diseases and when things have reached economic loss proportions then he uses loads of chems and sprays and sprays until he burns the plants and the fields with the stuff. Maybe that some of his pest problems decided to have lunch in my crops then instead.
I grew all my OSU orginal seeds under greenhouse conditions so they didn't have a chance to cross with anything but themselves, so I am looking forward to seeing what each develops into.
Has anybody with the new cultivar crosses taken any of the fruit yet up to a lab to be tested yet for sugar and antioxidant properties? Some adults may not care so much for the taste of the OSU, but it has been a big hit with children. I have had children that you couldn't bribe to eat a red tomato scarf them down. Anytime you can get more fruits and veggies in a child it is a good thing.
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Post by tatermater on Sept 10, 2010 10:59:54 GMT -5
A couple of my white tomatoes are scattered around the world after first allowing the seeds to grown in Holland back in '96. Snowberry and Banana Cream (they re-named it Cream Sausage). I rarely get the credit for them. I did the breeding work on them during the late 80's and the early 90's and did not intend for them to get released without my knowledge by Kees Sahin. If anyone could get the company to acknowledge my work I would be forever grateful. Even Bloody Butcher I think is mine. I sent Sahin some seed of lines that segregated for potato leaf, high lycopene and earliness. It was released in that 1998 cluster that included my Brandy Stripes (Vintage Wine) and Greensleeves (Green Sausage) among a few others.
Albino tomatoes as in seedlings without chlorophyll would not be workable. If there is another gene I don't know about that would be other than a real pale yellow flesh with clear epidermis, let me know. I have a whole series of tomatoes with white as the primary color. Some of the pale whites with pink stripes are striking. I don't think I planted any of those this year.
If you look at search engine images for white tomatoes those that show up along with White Beauty and others are a few of mine.
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Post by starlight1153 on Sept 10, 2010 14:02:33 GMT -5
I plan on getting and growing a lot of different white cultivars this coming year. I start hunting for some of the ones you have developed. Why wouldn't a grafted albino seedling work? With an albino you would have lack of pigment and be better able to imprint more of the blue and who knows maybe even have a blue inside and out. I have kept albino's of different seedlings alive for along time using a sucrose solution, but haven't tried the grafting yet, but it has been done successfully in Helianthus. "PROPAGATION OF ALBINO MUTANTS Neither of these mutants is capable of independent existence beyond the capacity of the stored food in the cotyledons. Without special provisions for an outside carbohydrate source, mutant seedlings form 1 or 2 pairs of leaves but live for only 2-3 wk. until death is caused by exhaustion of food reserves. We have found that the most convenient method of feeding is to graft young seedlings (1-3 days after germination) on to well-established green host plants. These grafting procedures have been described in detail elsewhere (Habermann and Wallace, 1958). Grafted albino mutants have been grown to maturity and both forms have set viable seeds." www.jstor.org/pss/2439184 Transfer of Flowering Stimulus from stock to scion in the grafted Helianthus annuus L. If you read the article , even just what showing up online without purchasing the whole article, it tells how to go about proceeding with the graft ( second paragraph from the end.) Could not the same method be used on tomato plants? Not sure exactly where the graft would need to be made though yet. The whites with pink stripes sounds very interesting. You should grow a few out and cross them with the blues. That might make for an interesting cross and sight to see. As to about, " If there is another gene I don't know about that would be other than a real pale yellow flesh with clear epidermis, let me know. " I can't think of one off hand, but winter is coming and plenty of time to hunt and research for articles about such a thing. If I do discover anything, will let you know.
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Post by atash on Sept 11, 2010 4:38:08 GMT -5
Tom, look at the piece of white paper in the photo of Pansy "Ap". It's not white. The photo has a yellow cast, due to the incadescent hotlights we used. I've fixed the color cast, but the colors are still not coming out right, probably due to a color-mapping problem related to the display. I don't remember Pansy "Ap" having that much red between the purple and the yellow, and I do not think it is that red a shade of purple. I believe that is an artifact due to a color-mapping problem. Everybody else: he got the idea for the name from a photograph of some Johnny-Jump-Ups. It should be a very deep purple, and not such a reddish purple. I don't think the yellow was that intense either. Part of the problem might have been that I did not adjust the overall color in the settings. I think we had it on "Auto" but I probably should have set it to "program" and adjusted it more carefully. Here it is without the yellowish color cast:
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Post by tatermater on Sept 11, 2010 20:23:09 GMT -5
Atash is right.
Allow me to make some observations so that the readers can follow me.
1. This tomato does not carry the green shoulder trait..it carries the uniform ripening gene which means simply that it does not have a dark green shoulder when the fruit is unripe. The green shoulder turns the blue more muddied especially after it ripens. The fact that the epidermis is clear means that when the tomato ripens the "then expressed amber color of a yellow ep. does not interfere with the blue so much...Blue and yellow makes a less pretty color, therefore the clear ep keeps a purer blue on the shoulders where the sun mediated anthocyanin is built up.
2. So many people want to pick the blue tomatoes before they are ripe. They immediately think because it is blue...then it must be ripe. False! Hardly anyone lifts the fruit to see if the bottom of the fruit is colored red. All too oftern the ripe blue tomato has a shoulder that is no longer the striking blue but a purplish/bronze. But since the yellow fruit is showing and has a clear epidermis it looks white as in most tomatoes that are called white. All white tomatoes are just light yellow tomatoes with a clear ep.
3. This tomato still has a chance for the yellow/white to turn to green flesh next season with a re-shuffling of the genes. It may be necessary to offer seed each year from a unstable white until that point where the fixation is thusly.
4. I will be showing the yellow ep tomatoes with the blue homozygousity later. Certainly those with yellow flesh to compare the picture here and later.
5. Provided that I can take more pictures. My significant other does not want to extract a single seed in the kitchen nor have a single fruit in the condo unit. I have so much work to do and have to do it undercover with quite a bit of duress. Finding places that cannot be found to dry seed papers is tortuous. The sink area must be spotless otherwise my clandestine seed extraction work may be detected and I will be out on the street.
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