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Post by gray on Jul 16, 2011 16:01:39 GMT -5
Hello all, have been reading for a while and I also post some on tater mater. Do admire the dedication of all here who are so ready willing and able to help others. Obviously much knowledge in the group. I planted AD on June 20 it is now july16 and it is 3-4 foot and tasseling. I got the seed from Alan this winter. It is a beautiful stand of corn, about 100 stalks, and I have babied it. Plenty of bone meal, lime and chicken manure. Also is irrigated, so you can imagine it is beautiful. I conciously planted different colored kernels to get a nice mix. It seems from reading other posts that this corn does not get very tall. I live in SE. North Carolina so it is very hot. We have had fairly bad drought but this doesnt matter as I am watering. We do have a very humid climate. I also have problems with ants getting into the corn when it is close to maturity. Should I watch it closely and pick as soon as ripe for fresh eating and dry the rest indoors? Dry it shucked or with the husk on? Is this typical of the time frame for this corn to start tasseling? Thanks for the help Gray
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Jul 16, 2011 20:59:25 GMT -5
If you are saving seed for planting next year I recommend letting it go as long as possible on the stalk. Remove the husks as soon as you pick it in order to minimize mold formation. Lots of air circulation is great. (I husk my seed stock and allow it to dry still attached to the plant, but I live in an arid climate and not many bugs or animals care to dine on my corn.)
If you are drying it for eating, pick when it is at it's peak flavor (fresh eating stage).
Your neighbor in NC reported 69 days to maturity for a planting in cooler weather, so it seems like you are right on schedule.
I look forward to a follow-up post from you with harvest dates so that we can calculate days to maturity and growing degree days for Astronomy Domine. First cob, last cob, and period of heaviest harvest would all be helpful.
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Post by mnjrutherford on Jul 17, 2011 7:33:59 GMT -5
Hi there Gray! Thanks for the post. I'm your neighbor. We live in Southwest Jacksonville. We didn't get any seed off our AD. But we will have some seed from Joseph's "Most Excellent" (I'm voting this as a good name here Joseph) popcorn. I'd love to make a trade with you this winter.
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Post by gray on Jul 17, 2011 7:48:11 GMT -5
Joesph and Rutherford thanks for the posts. Will do on the follow up of categories to report on Joesph. Rutherford I never have trouble swapping seed. In fact I should have enough of a flint corn called glass gem if either of you are interested. It seems to have done well here, though it is about 10 feet tall. Very sturdy however. It seems to me one of the appealing things about AD would be its small size. Why grow 10 foot corn (more nitrogen and time) when you can grow 3-5 foot corn and get it cheaper and quicker? Is this good logic Joesph? Gray
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Post by mnjrutherford on Jul 17, 2011 8:00:10 GMT -5
Diversity! Grow as many different kinds as possible. But everyone has differing philosophies on the matter. That's why this group is such an excellent source of seeds! ;o)
If you check out my facebook page, under photo albums, I have some photos of several different corns we are currently growing. I have a patch of mixed sweets (AD, Cherokee Squaw, Trucker's Favorite) interplanted with black oil sunflowers growing behind our shed. I also have a patch of wax corn we are growing as part of a seed increasing project.
Would you be interested in coming for a visit?
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Post by bunkie on Jul 17, 2011 11:55:58 GMT -5
... But we will have some seed from Joseph's "Most Excellent" (I'm voting this as a good name here Joseph) popcorn. I'd love to make a trade with you this winter. hey jo, this is the second time i've heard you mention joseph's great popcorn! now i'm curious!!! we're trying japanese hulless this year.
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Jul 17, 2011 12:13:58 GMT -5
Glass Gem is a gorgeous corn! Yes please on some seed. I'll PM you.
Tall corn vs short corn: Hmmmm.
In my garden I have about 100 frost free days, so I cannot double crop corn with anything else, I get one shot at it... (Next year I may try simultaneous plantings of corn and spinach. By the time the corn starts growing well it will be too hot for the spinach.) In a longer growing season it might make more sense to grow successive crops of shorter season corn instead of one long season corn.
The most productive corns for me (on a pound of seed per square foot basis) are the long season flour corns, because they are collecting sunlight for 40-60 days longer than shorter season corns. But who eats flour corn? Popcorn is slightly less productive for me but likewise takes up the whole growing season. I can sell these as decorative Indian corn. But I could just as easily grow a short season corn for that purpose. If I were growing animal food long season corns would be my best choice.
However... The most financially rewarding corns for me are sweet corns. The earlier to market the higher the price. Early corns also tend to be short corns and to have small ears. During mid-season when there is a lot of corn on the market ears from larger plants tend to sell better and collect better prices.
I don't have to stoop over to pick tall corn. I really don't like bending down to do anything in the garden.
Long season flour corns are the tallest and most tillering corns that I grow. I do not allow the corn stalks to leave the field, so I consider them to be a net importer of nutrition into my garden because of all the organic matter the crop adds to the soil, and the minerals that are pulled up from deep underground.
There is no weed in my garden that competes well with 10 foot tall highly tillered corn. Shorter corn can be overwhelmed by morning glory, or lambs-quarters, or red-roots, or that damned tall-weed-that-I-don't-have-a-name-for.
Last year I grew a corn that is intriguing to me: I called it "Michael's Sweet Midget". It was a very short corn, (around two feet), but at the same time full of foliage. The early sweet corns can be sparse on foliage, and I'm thinking that a denser plant could collect more sunlight and be better at suppressing weeds.
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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on Jul 17, 2011 15:27:30 GMT -5
Thank you for mentioning the name "glass gem"!! That's the corn i was trying to track down this year. I've never grown glass gem before, but it's the clear and shiny type of flint corn that is my favorite. If you have enough I'd like to jump in and get some from you as well. If not, i can try and track it down like i originally had planned, but now i know the name again.
-Andrew
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Post by mnjrutherford on Jul 17, 2011 18:29:09 GMT -5
Hey Bunkie! I want the "Glass Gem" too! I don't have a heck of a lot of seed from Joseph's popcorn. I can send you enough to grow some out next year, but there won't be enough for you to try. I don't think we'll try to eat any either though. We'll be growing out a much larger patch next year.
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Jul 17, 2011 19:09:02 GMT -5
If there's not an early frost, or a failure of my irrigation company, or other disaster I'm expecting to have plenty of popcorn seed to share. (Not hull-less.)
Popcorn is a low-priority crop for me. I have only planted it in one irrigation district. Astronomy Domine is a high priority crop, it is planted in five different irrigation districts in three distinct watersheds.
Medium priority crops like peas, radishes, and beans are distributed between two or three irrigation districts.
Growing widely dispersed crops also provides protection against animals, pests, blights, theft, foreclosure, divorce, hail, wind-damage, etc. I can't plan for every unfortunate event that would take out a valuable seed crop, but I figure that diversity in practice is as valuable as diversity in genetics.
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Post by mnjrutherford on Jul 18, 2011 5:52:21 GMT -5
Interesting how you put that Joseph. I feel the same way about cooking techniques and "standard" spice blends. The more methods you have of achieving a goal, the more capable you are of putting together sustenance if you find yourself in an adverse situation.
Out of curiosity, how do potatoes compete with corn on your priority list?
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Jul 18, 2011 8:41:20 GMT -5
Out of curiosity, how do potatoes compete with corn on your priority list? Potatoes are slightly lower priority than Astronomy Domine, about equal priority with hybrid sweet corn, and higher priority than other types of corn. My high priority seed crops are:Astronomy Domine su/se hybrid corn Tomatoes Muskmelons Moschatas Potatoes My medium priority seed crops are:peas radishes Walking onions Open pollinated sugary enhanced corn corn breeding projects snap/dry beans Watermelon garlic My low priority seed crops are:beets carrots broccoli zucchini bok choi sunroots croockneck Swiss chard yellow onions hybrid swarms pepo winter squash short season maxima C. melo: non muskmelons white globe purple top turnips winter wheat-like grasses sweet peppers Indian corn cucumbers parsnips cilantro parsley chives
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Post by mnjrutherford on Jul 18, 2011 9:30:09 GMT -5
When first asked, the question was just "nosey". Reading your list, it occurs to me that this is a pretty important thing to have.
Is this a purposeful list that you've had all along or did you prepare it when I asked? How did you reason the members of each section?
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Jul 18, 2011 11:54:59 GMT -5
Is this a purposeful list that you've had all along or did you prepare it when I asked? How did you reason the members of each section? I wrote down the list especially for you, but the list is merely documentation of the previously unspoken priorities in my life. The crops in the high priority list are either staples (potatoes, moschatas), near-staples (sweet corn), or highly sought after by the people in my village (tomatoes, muskmelons). I have a lot of time and money invested into tailoring these crops to my garden. They feed my family. These are the crops that I am emotionally attached to. These are the crops that bring me joy. The crops in the medium priority list are generally crops that I have invested a fair amount of effort into: I've gathered seeds, and conducted trials. These are crops that are potential staples (peas, beans), or that have the potential to grow more reliably for me if I could find the proper genetics (radish, garlic, se+ corn, watermelon). They are active breeding/selection projects. The crops in the low priority list are seeds that I grow so that I don't have to buy seed, and so that my seed will be better adapted to my garden. I don't have much invested in them. They grow reliably for me as-is and don't seem to need any particular adaptation to my garden. If they are landrace seed there might only be a few varieties. I haven't put much effort into genetic diversity, or selection, or trials. As examples: I planted Astronomy Domine in all of my large fields, and in small backyard gardens here and there, and I could also beg seed from collaborating neighbors and family. It is becoming a community corn so it's not urgent that I maintain it, but the neighbors are excited about the project and I have the space and understanding to maintain a good genetic diversity, so I grow it with as much resiliency as I can manage. Besides, it's a near-staple, so I plant some in each field so that if people stop by while I'm working I don't have to say "follow me to the other field". My tomato breeding/selection project is only being conducted in two irrigation districts that share a watershed, and in one greenhouse so it's not as robust, but I have put more effort into it than any other crop. Rumors fly and the neighbors are already asking for seed. "Joseph's Earliest Tomato" will become a community variety next year. Potatoes are a high priority crop for me because of their status as a staple. And since I haven't found a resilient commercial potato that stands up to my soil and pests I'm attempting to develop my own. Dry beans and peas are low effort crops for me, but medium priority because of their (potential) status as staple crops. I asked for seeds during seed swaps, but I didn't do research and I didn't buy (very much) seed, I'm not making crosses, or doing selections. I merely plant the crop and harvest the seeds, figuring that the plants that grow best in my garden will produce more seeds, and that over time the population will be skewed in favor of the more productive plants. In the good times we are currently experiencing my village doesn't care about dry beans or dry peas. Perhaps they will care in hard times. Whatever I end up offering will be more resilient and better adapted to our valley than any other variety. Walking onions are a medium priority crop for me because they are the first thing that can be harvested in the spring. They are not a staple, but they sure can make staples more palatable. They are planted in every field, and most backyards, and in the commons. Even though I put no particular effort into them, walking onions made it onto the medium priority list because of their resilience and versatility. Turnips are a low priority crop for me. Who eats turnips? The seed crop is planted in only one field. I started with one variety, I'm still growing the same one variety adapted to my garden. I might throw in a grocery store root once in a while, or plant a packet of seeds next to my main crop to see if anything thrives in my garden, but it's basically a no-effort seed crop. I don't have much invested in it, and the people in my village don't care. Many of my low priority crops are in this category: Who eats it? And nobody cares. Even my low priority seed gets stored in multiple backup locations, because it is more adapted to my garden than whatever commercial seed I could buy if I had to replace it.
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Post by seedywen on Jul 18, 2011 15:37:14 GMT -5
joseph, that's a helpful summary about your growing priorities.
Someday I may get around to a summary of my own for these forums.
You mention how low a priority, turnips were for most people, eating and saving-seed wise.
I might have thought the same way until about twenty years ago, when couch-grass invaded my main storage potato crop for the annual eight month supply and rendered most of the tubers, unkeepeable.
Thankfully the same year that the couch grass invaded, the Swedes also grew splendidly with over 300 lbs of good keeping roots for the cellar.
That winter, we learned how to prepare Swedes in more ways, than I imagined possible. This was before internet, too:)
Given the blight here on the Wet Coast, both early and late, that can basically some years, nearly wipe out tomato or potato crops, I still grown a winter crop of turnips. Food insurance.
Last winter, even large overwintering crops of Kale and chard died, during an unusual November cold snap. A phenomena that hadn't happened to me personally in twenty years, on this farm.
So like you, I'm busy saving seed from vegetable plants whose characteristics lend themselves to survival in my climate.
Unfortunately corn wouldn't be one of them. I'm lucky most years, if can get a significant corn crop ripened by mid Sept-to mid October before the first killing forst.
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