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Post by Blueflint on Oct 17, 2011 11:10:20 GMT -5
Hello to all, As many of you have noticed I have not been around for quite some time. Life does that unfortunately. As many of you know I work off the farm full time so any "non work" hours are well...working on the farm. 2011 started off on a bad note as my mother-in-law was in and out of the hospital and then passed away in April after turning 86. Life really throws a road block at us once in awhile. I got a late start on everything and decided not to work the farmer's market this year and concentrate on seed production. With all the spring rains I did manage to get the Cherokee White Flour Corn planted May 7th (my therapy), about 2-3 weeks later than I was shooting for. Soil was actually too wet but as we all know, sometimes you have to do what you can. Row width was 36" and seed spacing was at 12" which ends up around 14,000 per acre. With the wet soil I ended up at about 85% emergence (germ test of the seed was over 95%). Total area planted was somewhere around 1/10 of an acre. I feel this planting is too close for this variety as the average stalks were about 2 feet shorter than normal and many ears were about 2" shorter than the normal 10-12" length. Growth was good and in July, strong winds only damages 2 stalks (green snap about 4 feet up). No lodging at all. In the future I will continue with the 36" rows but space this variety out to 16-18" between the seed. I lost about 250 ears to squirrel and mice damage and should have harvested the ears a little earlier than I did which would have minimized soome of this. Overall a decent crop at 200 pounds of dried shelled seed, most of which already went to Southern Exposure Seed Exchange. Overall a nice flour corn, grinds smooth, makes a nice "roasting ear" with a very nice flavor at that stage. Not a big producer but with decent soil and moisture, it will do 50 bu/acre. I also grew a small crop of Leaming Yellow Dent this year with a larger crop going in next year. Blueflint  |
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Post by 12540dumont on Oct 17, 2011 11:56:25 GMT -5
That's beautiful corn. How many days or GDD?
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Post by cortona on Oct 17, 2011 12:04:31 GMT -5
sooo nice! have you some seeds for trade excange? i'm working on a composite flour corn landrace adapted to mediterranean condition and your looks very very nice!
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Post by darwinslair on Oct 18, 2011 8:03:38 GMT -5
Looks a lot like Iroquois White, or Tuscarora White. What is DTM? Does it grind as smooth as cake flour like the aforementioned do? Are there any lodging issues? Is it also an 8 row?
Tom
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Post by Blueflint on Oct 18, 2011 10:51:02 GMT -5
The Cherorokee Flour is similar to the Tuscarora White Flour Corn but the Cherokee plants are taller and the cobs are white on the Cherokee. Tuscarora should be a red cob and should always be selected for this. The Cherokee is mostly 8 row but some 10 row ears do show up. I only plant seed from 8 row ears that are at least 10" long. The Cherokee does grind into a fine flour. As a side note...my Cherokee Flour seed is not from the 1980's Brown and Robinson "re-selection". My stock came from an elderly Cherokee lady that has grown it all their life and she got it from their mother. It took me quite a few years of research to locate stock that did not trace back to Brown and Robinson. The only lodging I have seen is when plants are still quite small (12") and if the ground is saturated wet along with high winds, some will tilt some. Once rooted in well, they have no problems with winds over 60 mph other than some "green snap".
On a side note, there are several "Iroquois White Flour" corns. This would include Seneca, Oneida, Six Nations, etc. Historically the Iroquois did not grow the white flour corn until the Tuscarora joined the Iroquois Confederacy. Early historical accounts note Seneca women grinding what they called "Tuscarora Flour Corn". The Seneca being what appears to be the first to adopt the Tuscarora Flour Corn. The Oneida also adopted this corn but at a later date and they referred to it as "Seneca White Flour Corn". From what I have seen and grown, they are all quite similar but most have been selected for either white cob or are mixed color cobs from no selection. There was also a "mix and reselect" done back several years ago by one of the universities. Pure old strains are quite rare today. All are good flour corns.
I have not figured the GDD on the Cherokee White Flour but I will later on. I would guess 2800 to 2875 GDD. This year's crop was planted May 7th and all was harvested by September 10th, all had brown husks but still needed further dry down before storage, usually it is listed as a 120-125 day corn.
I am always looking to trade for other native corn varieties (ones I already don't have that is) as long as they have been grown in isolation (not looking for unknown gene pool).
Blueflint
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Post by PapaVic on Oct 18, 2011 12:34:38 GMT -5
Yes, that is some beautiful corn. And the information about Iroquois corn, Tuscarora corn, and Cherokee corn is extremely interesting, and I intend to follow up with more reading on the subject.
I hope this question does not derail your thread, but I am very interested to know whether Iroquoi and Cherokee people "nixtamalized" their corn before grinding. If so, did they steep the kernel in wood ash water or what exact process did they use? If they did, what was the most common way they brought the corn and liquid to a simmer first?
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Post by DarJones on Oct 18, 2011 12:50:12 GMT -5
I can partially answer that question pv. My half-Cherokee great grandmother talked quite a bit about making hominy using wood ashes. That qualifies as one form of nixtamalization. From what I have read, all native American's who grew corn also brought along alkaline processing when they started growing corn. Please note that even then corn is a lousy diet. Only when combined with beans and squash does it supply all the vitamins and nutrients for a healthy diet.
DarJones
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Post by spacecase0 on Oct 18, 2011 14:05:40 GMT -5
the nixtamalization takes a while with ashes,
it will not matter what you bring to a simmer first,
usually you use one cup of ash for every cup of corn and water to cover it, keep adding water if it gets low.
stir and simmer till it is done, likely in the 4 hour range for hard wood ashes and 10 hour range for soft wood ashes.
then rinse very well many times and pull off the seed coating while you are rinsing
and remember to use a non reactive pan like stainless, glass, or enamel with no chips missing
if you use aluminum it will chemically etch your pan away fast.
that corn looks great,
I want to try growing it now,
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Post by DarJones on Oct 18, 2011 15:31:40 GMT -5
Or you can use commercial Lye and a stainless pressure cooker and cut the time to under an hour.
DarJones
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Post by spacecase0 on Oct 18, 2011 15:47:57 GMT -5
I usually use hydrated lime and it takes less than 2 hours
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Post by 12540dumont on Oct 18, 2011 16:05:51 GMT -5
Nixtamal
Ingredients:
1. 1 pint organic field corn
2. 1 tbls Lime/Cal (I used Mrs. Wages from the canning section of the grocery)
3. 2 quarts water
Method:
1. Rinse corn and remove any chaff. Drain through a colander.
2. In a non-reactive pot, mix water and lime over high heat until lime is dissolved.
3. Add the corn and bring to a boil for 30 minutes.
4. Remove pot from heat, cover, and let soak overnight.
5. The next day, drain the corn through a colander and rinse. If making hominy for posole, remove hulls at this time. The hulls are the little brown tips which can be rubbed or picked off. This is not absolutely necessary, it just makes the corn bloom more.
6. Place corn in a bowl and cover with water. Allow to soak for 5 - 10 minutes moving the corn kernels with your fingers and then rinse again. Repeat this process one more time. This will ensure all traces of lime are washed away.
7. Drain the corn through a colander and your done. Homemade nixtamal!
Once your nixtamal is completed you can now use the corn in your posole recipe or you can grind it to make homemade tortillas or tamales.
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Post by grano on Oct 18, 2011 16:58:53 GMT -5
Which alkali conduces to the best flavor? I'm guessing lime. I add a little to mush.
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Post by 12540dumont on Oct 18, 2011 17:50:46 GMT -5
Can you tell me what state the Cherokee woman came from? Thanks
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Post by DarJones on Oct 18, 2011 22:35:32 GMT -5
NorthEast Alabama. The tradition in the family is that her grandfather had two wives and 26 children and was in the Redbird branch. We think he was a chief but don't have any records to prove it. His daughter married a white man in the 1820's and her daughter was my great grandmother.
DarJones
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Post by oxbowfarm on Oct 19, 2011 18:40:36 GMT -5
There is not really any way to know for sure but Tuscarora and Cherokee Flour corns seem likely to have been the same variety at some point. It is my historical understanding that the Cherokee and the Tuscarora were traditional ancient enemies, they almost certainly stole each others corn varieties as a result of raiding and warfare. Then when the colonists arrived the Tuscarora ended up squeezed on both sides and headed north and took the corn with them and they diverged? Stuff to think about.
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