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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on Apr 17, 2012 10:56:50 GMT -5
[Steps on small soapbox]
I just did a search for landrace just to see if i would find any new things today. I found a cannabis site that listed "Pure Landrace Strains" and a subcategory named "Landrace Hybrids".... its so agrivating when people use terms (mostly gardening terms) and use them in the opposite way that they were meant to be used.
Same with "Open Pollinated". In a literal sense it means open to the bees and the wind and the hummingbirds... to be freely pollinated by nature with an expectation that many of the seeds will be naturally occurring hybrids. But modern and mainstream use has now turned this to mean "pure, inbred, and stable". Which is the exact opposite of what it probably originally meant.
Why oh why do people use words that they dont understand?
[steps off soapbox slightly depressed (well not really)]
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Post by 12540dumont on Apr 17, 2012 11:31:17 GMT -5
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greltam
grub
Everything IS a conspiracy :]
Posts: 59
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Post by greltam on Apr 17, 2012 12:11:30 GMT -5
Funny thing you should mention that Keen. I was looking for examples of landraces a couple of days ago and the only pertinent entries were from you and Joseph. I think the general public is unaware of the idea of real landraces and the implementation of them. It just goes against the grain of common knowledge/teaching nowadays.
I don't think we need to change the term, we need to change people's understanding of the term. However, if people are content with their current understanding, we could all co-opt the term "Adaptivar Landrace" and hopefully get the idea out that way.
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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on Apr 17, 2012 12:49:54 GMT -5
thanks. that did make me smile. Although, many of those words do have double meanings, and depending on the context both ways can be correct. I do understand that languages are not static and meanings do change, but i was ranting about meanings changing so much that they mean the opposite of what they were originally intended. lol. greltam, you do make a good point. Perhaps i should adopt the term "Adaptivar" or Adaptive more prominently in the future. It does add some emphasis to the adaptive quality.
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Post by castanea on Apr 17, 2012 18:55:04 GMT -5
[Steps on small soapbox] I just did a search for landrace just to see if i would find any new things today. I found a cannabis site that listed "Pure Landrace Strains" and a subcategory named "Landrace Hybrids".... its so agrivating when people use terms (mostly gardening terms) and use them in the opposite way that they were meant to be used. Same with "Open Pollinated". In a literal sense it means open to the bees and the wind and the hummingbirds... to be freely pollinated by nature with an expectation that many of the seeds will be naturally occurring hybrids. But modern and mainstream use has now turned this to mean "pure, inbred, and stable". Which is the exact opposite of what it probably originally meant. Why oh why do people use words that they dont understand? [steps off soapbox slightly depressed (well not really)] At least you know what they meant by "landrace hybrids". The simple fact that they are using the term is actually a good thing in that they knew what landraces were, sought out landraces, and then crossed them. That's a level of botanical investigation that is rare in the mainstream gardening business. I would love to see someone cross two watermelon landraces.
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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on Apr 17, 2012 20:28:06 GMT -5
At least you know what they meant by "landrace hybrids". The simple fact that they are using the term is actually a good thing in that they knew what landraces were, sought out landraces, and then crossed them. That's a level of botanical investigation that is rare in the mainstream gardening business. I would love to see someone cross two watermelon landraces. But thats the thing. I dont think they do know what the term means. I've browsed a few cannabis forums now and again from the same search on google, and most of them refer to their landrace plants as being "pure". The original person knew what the term meant, sure, but from what i gather the rest generally dont. They are just happy to get canniabis seeds. But, whatever, it's only a small gripe of mine. To be honest i dont really care all that much. I just like to complain over nothing sometimes. I dont think you can ever have a landrace hybrid though. If you were to cross two landraces you would only have a new landrace.
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Post by castanea on Apr 17, 2012 20:58:57 GMT -5
At least you know what they meant by "landrace hybrids". The simple fact that they are using the term is actually a good thing in that they knew what landraces were, sought out landraces, and then crossed them. That's a level of botanical investigation that is rare in the mainstream gardening business. I would love to see someone cross two watermelon landraces. But thats the thing. I dont think they do know what the term means. I've browsed a few cannabis forums now and again from the same search on google, and most of them refer to their landrace plants as being "pure". The original person knew what the term meant, sure, but from what i gather the rest generally dont. They are just happy to get canniabis seeds. But, whatever, it's only a small gripe of mine. To be honest i dont really care all that much. I just like to complain over nothing sometimes. I dont think you can ever have a landrace hybrid though. If you were to cross two landraces you would only have a new landrace. I don't know what cannabis site you were looking at but I would agree that at least half the people in the cannabis community who use the word "landrace" don't know what it means. What is very cool though is that an awful lot of them do know. There are people here in northern California who brought in landrace cannabis genetics from Asia in the 1960s and 1970s and have done their best to keep them pure. Others have used those landrace genetics to make local landraces and others have used them in complex breeding projects. What they are calling a landrace hybrid is probably this: They take a landrace from somewhere, say Pakistan, and take another landrace from somewhere else, say Afghanistan, and then cross them. They call the result a landrace hybrid because it is a hybrid that was achieved through crossing two landraces. In reality, it is simply a hybrid.
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Apr 17, 2012 21:24:48 GMT -5
What they are calling a landrace hybrid is probably this: They take a landrace from somewhere, say Pakistan, and take another landrace from somewhere else, say Afghanistan, and then cross them. They call the result a landrace hybrid because it is a hybrid that was achieved through crossing two landraces. In reality, it is simply a hybrid. I'm intending to grow landrace-hybrid corn as my main market crop. I am certain that it will be radically different than the inbred-hybrid corn offered by the seed companies. I think that stability of type has some role to play in landrace crops. Perhaps not the rigid never varying clone-like uniformity of highly inbred crops, but a bean landrace probably aught to aim towards stability of some agronomic traits, for example, a pole bean landrace and a bush bean landrace. In corn, I'm intending for my production corn to be a cross between su sweet corn and se sweet corn. That way in the F1 I get the reliability and great growth characteristics of the su corn, with the extra sweetness of the sugary enhanced corn. But the F2 would be a mess... I'd say it's too unstable to be a landrace... It'd be more like a hybrid swarm, or a grex, or a mix, or something other than a landrace.
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Apr 17, 2012 22:41:39 GMT -5
I would love to see someone cross two watermelon landraces. I currently have in my seed stash the following watermelon landraces: Joseph's proto-landrace, Keen101's proto-landrace, Diane's proto-landrace from northern Missouri, Susan's proto-landrace from Idaho. I expect to inter-plant these landraces this summer so that they can cross via open pollination. We swapped seeds all around so each of the 4 breeding programs has seed from all of the programs. I can't speak for each of the collaborators, but I expect that some of them will be doing similar inter-planting. I will also be planting: the Long Island Seed Moon and Stars landrace, and two of the Homegrown Goodness watermelon landraces. They may have already contributed genetics to the other landraces.
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