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idig
Mar 1, 2008 10:44:56 GMT -5
Post by bunkie on Mar 1, 2008 10:44:56 GMT -5
Well, Lav, I want you to understand that I'm not holding that post against you because it was unintentional poor wording, but it is a good enough example for me to say the following... This has gotten out of hand, in my opinion. The Mayberry stuff is fun, but there have been some rather nasty things said on this thread (and some others) that are out of line. No, I'm definitely not a moderator, and yes, I may have been a part of it myself at times. But I think what Lav said some time ago about not saying anything about others online that you wouldn't say to their face is a good rule of thumb. I think it's time we sat back and thought about how hurtful some of these comments may be before we type them in. Frankly, some of it is shameful. well said johno!
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idig
Mar 2, 2008 6:54:58 GMT -5
Post by Jim on Mar 2, 2008 6:54:58 GMT -5
maybe we ought to just lock this one down and let it go???
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idig
Mar 2, 2008 9:41:41 GMT -5
Post by jaliranchr on Mar 2, 2008 9:41:41 GMT -5
clarkbar, one thing I've always liked about Alan's board and TL is that they don't lock threads all the time like some boards we have mentioned. If you just quite responding, that effectively locks a thread.
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idig
Mar 2, 2008 9:54:26 GMT -5
Post by Jim on Mar 2, 2008 9:54:26 GMT -5
I agree and understand what you're saying. It was merely a suggestion.
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idig
Mar 2, 2008 10:59:36 GMT -5
Post by johno on Mar 2, 2008 10:59:36 GMT -5
Look, folks, I'm all about freedom of speech, I just wish people would think before they speak. There are civil ways to express thoughts, that's all.
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idig
Mar 2, 2008 12:22:57 GMT -5
Post by jaliranchr on Mar 2, 2008 12:22:57 GMT -5
And throwing Fred Phelps in people's faces is not exactly a smart debate tactic, Johno. As usual, it takes more than one person to have a misunderstanding or arguement.
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idig
Mar 2, 2008 12:46:21 GMT -5
Post by moonlilyhead on Mar 2, 2008 12:46:21 GMT -5
Well, I just really only wanted to play a whore, that's all.
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idig
Mar 2, 2008 13:04:15 GMT -5
Post by landarc on Mar 2, 2008 13:04:15 GMT -5
Johno, I figure that civility is a great thing, from what I have seen, it has been sorely lacking on a lot of fronts. I don't know WU or Cliff et al, I was never a member at IDig. But, it seems from the lurking I have done, they do as much to bring it on as not. And I have never seen them ask for quarter. That being said, I am tired of the whole enmity I see between IDig/TV/TL/HG. I attribute part of this to winter. Once gardening starts up, we all get busy enough to leave these peccadilloes alone. I have my reasons for leaving TV, I got banned from GW for unfair reasons, I am no saint. But, c'mon, let's just move on from where we have been and do better than those we would otherwise berate. I like a good political discussion, me and Pyro been going around on global warming for a year, but, we can be civil about it.
FWIW, I agree with Johno and Jali. I would like to see folks be civil, but, on both sides. When you say you support someone like Fred Phelps, that is not civil, that is supporting someone that has supported the belittling and social ostracizing of a minority peoples in our society. Folks that have worked a long time in civil rights cant look at a person like that and not see the ill intent that he represents to society. Quite frankly, it isn't how you say it, it is what you say, that is the measure of civility.
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idig
Mar 2, 2008 14:01:53 GMT -5
Post by MawkHawk on Mar 2, 2008 14:01:53 GMT -5
And throwing Fred Phelps in people's faces is not exactly a smart debate tactic, Johno. As usual, it takes more than one person to have a misunderstanding or arguement. Well, there was no a misunderstanding. The gentleman in question stated in a now deleted post (not sure if he took the weenie way out and deleted his own post or if an admin/mod delete it tho): "That's why we who are in the right must EXPAND the fences of what the cynics refer to as our "dogma". God bless Reverend Phelps! (And no, that's not a joke. I'm downright serious.)" For the record, this is the Wikipedia entry for Fred Phelps: "Fred Waldron Phelps, Sr. (born November 13, 1929) is the pastor of the Westboro Baptist Church (WBC), an independent Baptist church in Topeka, Kansas. He is a disbarred lawyer and founder of the Phelps Chartered law firm. WBC is listed as a "hate group" by the Southern Poverty Law Center.[1] He is known for preaching with slogans and banners denoting phrases such as "Thank God for 9/11", "God hates fags," "AIDS cures fags," and "Fags die, God laughs (or mocks)," and claims that God will punish homosexuals as well as people such as Bill O'Reilly, Coretta Scott King, Ronald Reagan, and Howard Dean, whom his church considers "fag-enablers".[2][3] His church says he is a "Five-Point Calvinist".[4] He has also thanked God for the 2004 Indian Ocean earthquake.[5] Phelps and his followers frequently picket various events, especially military funerals, gay pride gatherings, and high-profile political gatherings, arguing it is their sacred duty to warn others of God's anger. When criticized, Phelps' followers say they are protected in doing so by the First Amendment.[6][7] In May 2006 President Bush signed the Respect for America's Fallen Heroes Act in response to Phelps' protests at military funerals.[8] In April 2007, Kansas governor Kathleen Sebelius signed into law a bill banning the protest of funerals.[9] Phelps says that he is a preacher who believes that homosexuality and its acceptance have doomed most of the world to eternal damnation. The church at Westboro which he leads has 71 confirmed members, 60 of whom are related to Phelps through blood or marriage or both. The group is built around a core of anti-homosexual theology, with many of their activities stemming from the slogan "God hates fags," which is also the name of the group's main website. Gay rights activists, as well as Christians of virtually every denomination, have denounced him as a producer of anti-gay propaganda and violence-inspiring hate speech.[10]"
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idig
Mar 2, 2008 14:42:37 GMT -5
Post by jaliranchr on Mar 2, 2008 14:42:37 GMT -5
Mawk, I know who Fred Phelps is. I became acquainted with him in the mid-90s thanks to an unsolicited email from Westboro Baptist Church. They were not yet on the national radar but telling everyone that received their emails that Topeka was the "Sodom of America." Yes, I know who he is. I have also been physically close to the man and his kin, walking past them to a graveside service for a friend, again prior to any national notice of this bunch.
And having a theoretical, academic remark thrown my way about this reprehensible human being steamed me good. I cannot comprehend the hatred generated by these people, nor can I comprehend any reasonable person defending them on any level of decency or faith. And I don't care if that comment came from a kid or a senior, it was wrong.
Yes, Johno, I took it personally and I'll leave it to you to figure out why I took it personally. I've read that stuff at I Dig and groaned but now it is here in this place that has always been tolerant. How nice!
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idig
Mar 2, 2008 15:15:22 GMT -5
Post by johno on Mar 2, 2008 15:15:22 GMT -5
...That being said, I am tired of the whole enmity I see between IDig/TV/TL/HG. I attribute part of this to winter. Once gardening starts up, we all get busy enough to leave these peccadilloes alone... ...I would like to see folks be civil, but, on both sides... ...it isn't how you say it, it is what you say, that is the measure of civility... Agreed. Agreed. Agreed.
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LoreD
gardener
Posts: 226
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idig
Mar 11, 2008 17:15:46 GMT -5
Post by LoreD on Mar 11, 2008 17:15:46 GMT -5
Oh My Gosh, I'm guilty of a personal attack. On the Fema Camps thread I responded to Cliff Timmons post that he would always have a job, and never be homeless or helpless with "never homeless or helpless, probably heartless." Greenzone said this was a personal attack and gave me a warning. I am sooo mean and nasty. LoreD
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idig
Mar 11, 2008 19:03:22 GMT -5
Post by greenzone on Mar 11, 2008 19:03:22 GMT -5
Well, it wasn't much of a personal attack, and I didn't edit it. (You might even be right.) But it was an illustrative case, so I pretty much had to call attention to it.
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idig
Mar 12, 2008 6:52:41 GMT -5
Post by MawkHawk on Mar 12, 2008 6:52:41 GMT -5
LoreD, the real question IMHO is, why do you even read that crap?
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idig
Mar 12, 2008 7:52:39 GMT -5
Post by plantsnobin on Mar 12, 2008 7:52:39 GMT -5
LoreD, I still go over to read the crazy stuff at Idig, and yesterday I did read that post. As I read Cliff's 'I'll never be homeless or helpless, I if got laid off, I would have work by the end of the week' crap, I couldn't believe his arrogance. This guy honestly thinks that he is so special that outside events don't affect him??? I guess all those people in the cities so desperate during the depression were just lazy asses who weren't trying hard enough. I would hate to see anyone lose their home because of economic conditions beyond their control-except maybe for Cliff. There GZ, THAT is a personal attack, not saying someone was 'probably heartless'. I guess I shouldn't even read through Idig anymore, but hey, I don't have a real job, and there is still snow on the ground...
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