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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Jun 13, 2013 10:10:03 GMT -5
I have been thinking about seedless (triploid) watermelon.
I know what the strategy of the mega-farms is in relation to seedless watermelon. I've been wondering if there is a simpler system for small scale growers...
Supposing we plant a row of diploid melons, and a row of tetraploid melons side by side. Lets further suppose that the melons have some kind of phenotype clues to tell us whether they are diploid, triploid, or tetraploid.
For example: Striped skin is dominant over light green skin. Round fruit is dominant over oblong fruit, but F1 hybrids have an intermediate fruit shape called "blocky".
At harvest time, we collect the melons with striped blocky fruits as the seedless triploid. And we collect the seeds from the oblong light green fruits as our tetraploid row for next year. And we collect the seeds from the round striped fruits as our diploid row for next year. Seedless melons will appear in both rows in every year after the first.
Am I oversimplifying? Is there any foreseeable reason why this sort of system couldn't perpetuate itself indefinitely? Sure yields of seedless melons are not going to be as high a percentage of the crop as what the mega-farms grow, but to the small scale grower any decent watermelon is desirable whether or not it is seedless.
I'm intending to plant a patch this way in order to test the theory.
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Post by raymondo on Jun 14, 2013 3:04:18 GMT -5
You'll have to hand-pollinate the diploid and tetraploid melons separately to ensure diploid and tetraploid seed respectively otherwise you won't know who the daddy is.
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Jun 17, 2013 2:19:01 GMT -5
My thinking on this is that I'd let natural pollination take care of making the crosses. I figure that:
diploid X diploid ==> diploid tetraploid X tetraploid ==> tetraploid
diploid X tetraploid ==> triploid tetraploid X diploid ==> triploid
triploid ==> male and female sterile (doesn't matter if pollen donor is diploid or tetraploid?)
I think that I don't care who's the daddy. I'm speculating that any way I planted the patch that there'd to be some blend of offspring that are diploids, tetraploids, and seedless triploids.
I have planted seeds to start a patch like this. It'll be a few years before I can report results.
I grew a carrot patch for years that was 70% male sterile, i guess I could get by with a melon patch that was 70% sterile, as long as there were a few diploids and a few tetraploids every year that pollinated their own kind.
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Post by raymondo on Jun 17, 2013 5:16:30 GMT -5
Ah yes, I see. With the different phenotypes, you just leave them to it. Do triploids produce viable pollen?
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Post by oxbowfarm on Jun 17, 2013 5:25:49 GMT -5
That seems pretty workable. It would probably be a good idea to hold back a stash of the tetraploid seed in case of total crop failure, since it was so much work to produce.
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Post by toad on Jul 8, 2013 14:40:25 GMT -5
Joseph, did you ever consider to grow watermelons woth extreme tiny seeds? To me, that seems to fit better im your landrace breeding - and no need for tetraploid lines (or just breed ahead with the tetra). Personally I find the extreme tiny seeds are eaten unnpticed, whereas,the seedless triploids have a lot of normal sized empty seeds.
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Jul 8, 2013 14:51:42 GMT -5
I planted some of the tiny watermelon seeds, but they didn't produce fruit in my garden. I don't know if that's because they failed to germinate, or got overtaken by weeds, or were too long season, etc...
These days, if the tiny seeds caused slow early growth, I would chop the plant out rather than allow a slow growing plant in my garden. Vigorous growth in order to out-compete weeds is one of my selection criteria.
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Post by ottawagardener on Jul 9, 2013 6:51:53 GMT -5
I also tried to plant tiny seeded water melons but I didn't get any germination or maybe one germinated but then died. However, I would be interested in further this line of inquiry OR looking into watermelon varieties that produced few viable seeds. So Joseph, if you want to try again, let me know, as I'll happily explore it with you.
As for your watermelonX crop. Sounds doable.
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Post by cortona on Jul 9, 2013 14:38:43 GMT -5
can somebody tel me the name of o good cv of really tiny seeds watermelons? here in italy it are barely know and i dont know non of it, it wuld be fun to grow it!
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Post by raymondo on Jul 9, 2013 17:29:17 GMT -5
Cortona, Jenny and Premium are two cultivars with small seeds. I've seen Jenny available at Park Seeds and at Gourmet Seeds.
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Post by steev on Jul 9, 2013 18:05:51 GMT -5
Seedless watermelons would mean the death of Chinese opera, where watermelon seeds have much the same place as popcorn in American movie theaters. I may not have mentioned how much fun Chinese opera is.
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Post by blueadzuki on Jul 9, 2013 18:39:49 GMT -5
Seedless watermelons would mean the death of Chinese opera, where watermelon seeds have much the same place as popcorn in American movie theaters. I may not have mentioned how much fun Chinese opera is. Well, to each their own. I'm no fan (mostly because I actually had to SING IT for my college elective in Asian Theater and I'm no falsetto). But if the watermelons all went seedless, I imagine they'd just start eating more winter melon seeds; they aready often sub one for the other all the time (though Canton Giant is a B**CH to shell with your teeth.)
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Post by steev on Jul 9, 2013 19:41:08 GMT -5
Lord! This forum does draw an eclective group. Hao!
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Post by toad on Jul 10, 2013 14:07:50 GMT -5
I had my tiny seeded breeding line of watermelon from Pierre: DSCN5871 by skrubtudse, on Flickr This is the fifth watermelon this year. Again a Bonanza - thanks to Pierre The seeds are extremely tiny, as predicted by Pierre. Almost the size of tomato seeds. It's very nice when eating the watermelon, as you doesn't notice the seeds. But for seed saving it's a pain in the a.. You don't feel the seeds in your mouth, so better sort them out before eating the watermelon, or there will be no seeds left. Then they are slippery, stick to the plate and are easily washed down the drain, when I try to wash them But tiny seeds are really a good trait in a watermelon, if you don't intend to eat the healthy seeds. ;D
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Post by ottawagardener on Jul 10, 2013 16:05:18 GMT -5
Love it Toad!!
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