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Post by blueadzuki on Aug 10, 2013 14:09:16 GMT -5
I'm growing a patch of South American corns this summer. Some of them have weeping tassels. That's a new trait for me. Overall, the stalks tend to be slimmer than the Northern flint derived corns that I have been growing. I find this interesting in that one of the few corn plants that is still alive in my yard is probably South American (it's critter planted, so I can't be 100% sure until when and if I get actual seed out of the cob) and it's tassel was odd to me for the opposite reason, it was a "club" tassel (no side branches at all, all of the pollinia coming straight out from a perfectly vertical central stalk) or why it took me so long to even IDENTIFY it as a corn plant (it's also extremely short and thin, so I took it for some other grass initially. Plus that part of the yard is filled with tall grassy looking things, like irises and dayflowers. There's actually a second one over there I only noticed once it's base turned red.)
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Post by blueadzuki on Aug 8, 2013 17:02:14 GMT -5
nice photos of flower structure. Both beans have now gotten anther flush of flowers so I can show you why I am getting so confused. Both of these are SUPPOSED to be P. vulgaris as far as I know and fort portal pretty much has to be (unless there is a kidney tepary) Fort Portal Bantu as you can see, both have that split bottom, like the tepary flower had
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Post by blueadzuki on Aug 1, 2013 8:38:12 GMT -5
I guess the situation has reversed from the days of Stan Freberg's Christmas Dragnet/Yulenet, now it's "Most folks call 'em "scallions" , but they're really green onions (or green garlic, or shallots, or whatever).
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Post by blueadzuki on Jul 31, 2013 17:11:17 GMT -5
I had two attempted long bean types planted in my stump garden, both taken from overripe pods collected in Chinatown from the long beans being sold for stir frying. One type had pods that were unusually fat for a long bean with sides that were extremely rugose (ridged and wrinkled)with seeds that were white with a black eye. The other was a little thinner (though still on the fat side for a yard long)with seed that was a ying yang of white and mottled pink on red. Both had pods that were whitish green (not as white as my wax pod cowpea, but whiter than a green bean Unfortunately the rampage of the squirrels ate them all, so no ability to report on how they did for me. Well I THINK they ate them all. I currently have two cowpea plants producing pods in the stump but since that was also heavily sown with non-yard long cowpeas, which type they are is a mystery. The pods one the older one (the other just shed it's first flower) seem to top out at about 9-12 inches if you pulled them out (they both are heavily hooked, so that's a guesstimate) a bit long for a standard, a bit short for a yardlong. they look a LITTLE like the second one, though a touch darker and I don't remember the second one having a red tip to the pods or that little "bulge" some cowpeas get on their pod tips (these do). I suppose the real answer will come at the end of the season when I see the seed shape, if they are short seeds, they're probably standards, long kidney shaped seeds, probably yardlongs. Over this years hunts I was unable to find more of the first type of pods. However I managed to secure a moderate amount of the second, so next year I can try again I guess (provided at least some of the seed is mature enough to be viable)
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Post by blueadzuki on Jul 28, 2013 19:50:58 GMT -5
Does anyone know if the hole between the rows is normal or due to a too early harvest ? FYI, "Early June" has 8 rows with this kind of hole every 2 rows. It's just a function of the corns genetics. Different strains of corn have different number of rows genetically programmed into them. When you get a mix where you have a low number of rows (8 is pretty low), a large circumference cob, and a smallish kernel size (yours are normal by general corn standards, but a lot of the 8 rows belong to the groups with very large or very wide kernels), you get that happening. I've got a S. American 8 row that looked like that when I got it (actually since the kerenls were big enough to touch and it was a small cob, I actually had a cob that was more or less square in cross section). It's just that most of the corns we are used to seeing in this country tend to be 12-16 rowers. On the flip side amongst my mini corns is a pink,white and yellow shoepeg dent that had between 32-36 rows (I took it apart so long ago I've forgotten the exact number)
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Post by blueadzuki on Jul 25, 2013 16:30:55 GMT -5
In an ideal world I suppose I should re plant the emmer that was in that pot as well, in case of reverse crosses. However as all of the wheat from this year is in the same vase, and those heads don't look any different from the "pure" golden emmer from the pot next to them, finding those heads is probably a lost cause. And I hardly have the room to re-plant every grain from every head I got this year. So that probably won't happen. Next year should be really fun, I'm doing another pot of "found" grain (not as in the stuff I pick from the roadsides, but as in grains found in bags of other things. Which will mean a whole potpourii of wheats, barleys, probably some oats and some sort of grain I can't even identify that keeps showing up in the lentils (does anyone know a grain which is bright green when mature?).
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Post by blueadzuki on Jul 25, 2013 11:10:05 GMT -5
I have an einkorn question of my own. How readily does it cross? This year, when I planted my pot of Einkorn I accidentally let a seed of golden emmer get in there as well. about two weeks ago, when I was harvesting I noticed something odd; some of the einkorn heads had a few grain (never a whole heat, just a few grains) that were WAY bigger than any of the ones next to them; so big that they were almost pushing the glumes apart (the same way some modern wheats do when the grain is mature but not dried down) Could these be the results of emmer pollen getting in or more accurately of emmer getting in and succeeding in crossing? I know that, way back in history something like that happened; that emmer is assumed to be the result of a cross between an einkorn and some sort of goat grass. But I though the chromosome count of the two (einkorn is diploid, emmer is generally considered tetraploid) meant that a cross between the two was difficult. If I do thresh the einkorn (normally I just leave all of my wheat for ornamental purposes because I never have enough to make eating it feasible but the einkorn got nasty cotton bug damage this year, and doesn't look all that nice, so I may break it down to try again)I suppose I should separate those grains out, if I can (if they are still oversized when dried, I'm fine, if they shrink so much that they become the same size, I may have a problem telling them from the normal stuff) and see if they perform differently.
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Post by blueadzuki on Jul 21, 2013 23:14:33 GMT -5
Actually that was what I meant (I forgot my terminology) On my beans the wings were wide apart, like they are on the blossom on the right as opposed to the more normal "bean flower" shape as in the flower on the left
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Post by blueadzuki on Jul 21, 2013 22:32:22 GMT -5
Ok, now I am just confused. Is the difference between the two that teparies had that "split" keel on the flower. 'Cause if it is, I have a really weird problem; Most, if not all of the beans I grew this year had that split flower, including things like the fort portal that CAN'T be teparies (as far as I know there is no such thing as a kidney tepary). And I'm a little dubios about Bantu being one either (I'm not sure that teparies are found in Africa, and in any case, since teparies are drought resistant, a humid place like Uganda would not seem like somewhere where one would expect them to be.
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Post by blueadzuki on Jul 20, 2013 16:43:40 GMT -5
Hello Blueadzuki, I am the one that collected that bunch of beans in Fort Portal, Uganda. It was absolutely amazing seeing the ladies with such a diverse number of different beans most of them all mixed together. One of the rarest and most amazing beans that i ever collected was found at another vendor in Fort Portal; a dry bean with a very colorful jade green color! These beans were offered in 2012 through Richter's SeedZoo, and they sold out very quickly. I believe that we still have some stored in Italy with the rest of that collection from Uganda. If you or anyone you know has acquired the "Fort Portal Jade Bean" I would be very interested in getting in contact with them. This year we are growing out almost 3oo accessions of Phaseolus vulgaris and we have some extraordinarily unusual stuff in that collection. If you are a real bean lover stay in touch. Best, Joseph Simcox Greetings Joe and welcome to the board! I in fact grew the Fort Portal Jade the year before last, though I got no final seed (squirrels). I agree it is an incredibly colorful bean though given it's shape, I think of it as being more closely realted to the Bantu bean you collected rather than the Fort Portal mixed. In theory I may have some Fort Portal Jade around only I can't tell it apart and it isn't jade! I'm one of the people who got their beans BEFORE Ricthers went through and pulled out all of the non-green ones (In fact, I'm the person who sort of caused the pull out, as the presence of the non greens led me to ask if Bantus had been mislabeled. That went into the pot with my Bantus this season, and may have come back out, but since ALL of my Bantus came back purple, I have no clue which seed might be the Fort Portal Amethyst. BTW if you are re-growing out the accessions, you may want to re-grow out the Speckled Grey as well. Based on my results and the results of those I know who tried it, the Seed Richters got may be now getting very old (since they don't regenerate themselves). I got a germination of 1 out of 4 and the other two people I know got 0/11 and 0/15. Edit Oh I'm sorry! I forgot you wanted info on how the Fort Portal Jade actually grew Here's what I can tell (some of this actually came from this years Bantu growing, but since, as I said the two are very. very close, growth info for one pretty much applies for the other. I can't actually tell whether FPJ/B is a bush or pole type bean or indeed both. Some plants stayed as simple uprights (very short ones) and others trailed and climbed. Surprisingly given that Fort Portal is only about half a degree from the Equator, both Fort Portal Jade and Bantu appear to be cold loving beans. The throve in the near freezing temperatures we had over most of the spring, but began to really suffer once it got warm. There was (and is) one that was a bit more heat tolerant and is still out there. Flower color is pink (this seems to be the case for all of the African beans I grew) pods are filet type (flat). One odd thing I noticed during harvest concerns the aborted seeds. It seems that Bantu (I never saw any fully mature FPJ, so I can't comment on that) begins to firm up the inside of the seed very early, way earlier than most beans do (so that at a size when you'd expect the aborted bean to squish or pop there is actually a little firm set of cotyledons in there (I really should have saved a few of the aborts and re-planted them) On the whole it is a surpisingly productive bean for me. If there is any drawback to the type I'd say it is actually the shortness of the plants, which means that, given the length of the pods, the tips of the pods actually wind up almost level with the ground; easy picking for rampaging animals (I only got seed off the Bantus because I planted them in a pot and put the pot on a pedestal. Apart from the longer seed, the Fort Portal Mixed grew more or less the same as the Bantu though with the percentages reversed (one cold loving plant, most warm loving plants). And I'm not sure how "mixed" the mixed are. Based on what I saw this year, it almost looks like rather than being a mix of many different beans, the Fort portal is largely one type of very variable one, whose seed coat color seems to be growing condtion dependent. All of the short season ones came back purple, all of the long season ones; whitish (some with a touch of purple around the hilum) I'm leaving the last of the pods out extra long to see if the colors change with more time, but I think that seed color may have less to do with genetics here and more with how the seed cures down.
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Post by blueadzuki on Jul 20, 2013 6:14:00 GMT -5
No, it threshed free (though like a lot of fully bearded wheats, the awns are very very prickly and stick to everything). I did about half the heads, according to my threshing standards (since I don't really have the space to grow enough wheat to eat meaningfully, what I do grow/collect tend to be kept intact, in vases, as decoration. So I usually only thresh those heads that are already wrecked, or where the stalk has broken so high up that they won't sit well in a vase). The wheat does look healthy, though a part of me thinks it probably would have looked even healthier a few weeks ago, when it was still upright and fully golden. Oh well, if I have a problem I can always grow the threshed seed out next year on my own land, where I don't have to worry about cops stopping me to ask why I'm walking along the side of the highway with a pair of scissors (I'd look even more supicios if I went whole hog collecting, then I'd probably be walking around with an actual sickle (I did some time volunteering on our local 17th century Dutch restoration, so I actually do know how to use one OK (as well a having a memory of very vivid reminder of what can happen if you use one wrong)and an arrow quiver (what I have decided is an ideal vessel for carrying small amount of wheat with the stalks cut long). But I can sympathize with your ancient grain rant, the wheats I grew from seed this year were two emmers and an eikorn (the kusa ones)I'm not planning to thresh them (well maybe the eikorn, the bugs did a job on it so it looks a little too manky to be pretty) but I did have to pop the kernels out of the original spikelets to plant them, and yes it does take time. Next year I'm doing shot wheat which will probably have it's own threshing problem (since shot wheat grains are almost spherical, if you not careful when your threshing, the grains can simply roll out of the basket. Guess I'll need to find one with high sides.)
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Post by blueadzuki on Jul 19, 2013 19:24:08 GMT -5
FINALLY managed to get a sample of that wheat from the highway looks quite a bit like the stuff Joeseph found (really thick stems) maybe its the same variety I think the patch may have become permanent by now it's been there for 2-3 years.. And it's beginning to send out satellite patches too.
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Post by blueadzuki on Jul 17, 2013 23:20:20 GMT -5
I wouldn't worry about that much. When digging up my garden last year, I unearthed an old grape green glass bead I must have dropped there years ago. That's WAAY more radioactive (I ran a Geiger counter over one in high school and according to that, each bead emits 4,000 alpha particles per second) than any fiesta ware glaze (it's also uranium oxide but the glass tends to have a LOT more than the glazes do. It must have been buried there for at least a decade or so (it's been that long since the person who got those things (old Czech stock from the 1960's and 70's) showed up at any rock and mineral show. And I never had any problems (well none with mutated veggies.....).
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Post by blueadzuki on Jul 17, 2013 15:49:05 GMT -5
Thanks, mayz. Hmmm. It looks like different varieties exhibit all different variations of sexual status. The problem now is that the tree I have was not labeled with a variety name; all the tag said was "Oriental Persimmon." Guess I'll just have to keep waiting and watching, and see what happens. MB I guess this also puts the final nail in the coffin of the cockamamie plan I came up with back when I was a kid. I was going to try and cross Diospryros vinginiana with D. ebenum or D. ebenaster; create an ebony tree that could grow in a temperate climate, and rule the ornamental hardwood industry. Not that the plan was going anywhere (for one thing, it's very hard to get seeds or live cuttings of ebony; even the seed companies that specialize in tropical trees usually don't have it. )
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Post by blueadzuki on Jul 16, 2013 15:24:31 GMT -5
(whether you grow bush beans or pole beans is up to the cultivator, but I have NEVER heard of anyone who knowingly planted beans of both types as part of the same planting unit; I imagine that just makes cultivation and harvest a nightmare.) I did that last year... Planted dry beans from whatever source not knowing whether they were vining or bush. I let them sprawl in the field. And tried to only harvest bush beans. But I got plenty of pole beans in the mix as well. This spring I replanted the collected seed, and whenever I am moving irrigation pipe, or walking past the row I stop to pull the pole beans. I want the population to be only bush beans. So today when I was moving pipe, I saw several bean vines growing side by side, so I stopped to pull them. Ooops. I was pulling the runner beans instead of a pole bean in the bush bean patch! Resilient Bean Breeder is a mix of pole beans and bush beans. So far I am letting the pole beans live, but I intend to separate them at harvest. Woo Hoo! I have runner bean flowers. It's been since my grandfather died 28 years ago that I grew a decent crop of runner beans. Perhaps this will be the year that I grow a successful crop. But you just confirmed what you said, you are selecting FOR bush beans, and rouging out the poles (in the first population) and dividing the two (in your resilient). You are NOT keeping the population permanently mixed . That's what I said nobody probably does, growers may pick bush, they may pick pole but they are not going to keep a mix where both exist and they don't know which they'll get from seed to seed as it is. They'll select for one or the other, or at least split the two apart. And I do the same with the rice beans (well normally, I'm not doing it this year because I have so few): I yank out the poles and leave the bushes where they are. It just doesn't have anything to do with wanting one shape or the other (the poles don't flower, and they strangle the bushes if they get the chance.)
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