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Post by walt on Dec 21, 2016 14:15:53 GMT -5
I agree, Joeseph, that there is no inherant reason that OP cabbage should have lower germination or adaptation than hybrids. But if some, or many, OP vareties have become somewhat, or very, inbred due generations of too-small population size, then one might well have problems as Gilbert says. And such problems as Gilbert mentions would show up worse in areas where cabbage is less well adapted. You have described your farm or gardeen as cooler, better for cabbages than some. I am interested in a cabbage landrace as seedbank. But I am interested in too many things to be involved inn everything. I think this a good idea, provided there are enough people interested, interested enough to put work into it. The same could be said about any crop though. That said, I would think that such a landrace would need to broken up into areas. Some would need to be selecting for more cold tolerance, others would need better heat tolerance. And people in great cabbage growing areas probably already have found a good OP cabbage for their area.
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Post by walt on Dec 20, 2016 14:48:00 GMT -5
I do my internet at the public library, so I don't have my copy of Allard's book Principles of Plant Breeding. But I believe that the equation for loss of genes is 1/2n per generation, where n is the population size. So to only loose 1%, !%=1/100=1/(2x50). So in a population of 50, only 1% of genetic diversity is lost per generation. Now the questions are (1)do I remember the equation correctly, and (2) did I apply it correctly? The your hypothetical case, you state that each of 100 accessions has some unique trait. That unique trait could mean a unique gene combination, or it could be each having one or more unique genes. If each of these unique traits was due to a distinct unique gene, then there would be a lot of genes already at 1% gene frequency. It seems to me that some would get lost quickly due to genetic drift. With 50 plants per generation, you could prevent inbreeding depression forever, but not keep 99% of the genes for even a single generation. Going back to your original hypothetical case, you state that for starters, you would use 2 plant from each of 100 OP varieties. That is 200 plants. Hypothetical genes unique to 2 of those plants would seem to me to still be at risk. In other words, I have my doubts that the equation applies to populations that have many genes each with very low frequency. I'll point out that 100 unique varieties may not have 100 unique genes. You might have varieties with abcdefg, bcdefgh, acdefgh, abdefgh, etc. Hypothetically 100 unique traits may have 100 genes each at 99% frequency. In real life then, 100 unique traits could be due to anywhere between 0 to 100 unique genes. We just don't know without a lot of test crosses and/or gene mapping. I'll get out my book tonight and see what Allard had to say about it. Allards book Principles of Plant Breeding was the textbook for 3 of my graduate level classes in genetics-plant breeding. And in all the other classes it was just assumed we had read and understood it. That said, I try to re-read it every winter for the last 38 years. It is that full of information. It is also written clearly that a layman can start with it and learn a lot on the first reading. But there is more on each re-reading. When I was packing to go to the Peace Corps, I asked one of my graduate professors what books I should take. He said "You have Allard don't you?" I said "Yes." He said "He said it all." Sorry, nothing in it about gene-spicing. That hadn't been invented yet when my edition was printed. Amazon has it. Second hand it is affordable for most people.
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Post by walt on Dec 17, 2016 14:28:06 GMT -5
"if it doesn't come with a contract, it isn't GMO."
Not true. The only counter-example I know of it the Golden rice, rice with yellow pro-vitamine A. It wasn't made by a huge multi-national corporation. It was made by a guy that was concerned about the lack of vitamin A in the diets of poor people who live on rice. Sure, a few hot pepper plants would supply the needed vit. A. But many people con't get much but rice, white rice at that. So, with good intentions some guy added a gene from Narcissis to rice, and released it to the public, no patent. OP, too. And others have crossed it in to other rice breeding lines. Last I heard, the golden rice varieties yield less than non-golden rice, but breeding was improving the yeild.
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Post by walt on Dec 17, 2016 14:05:12 GMT -5
-5F in central KS last night. Not a record, but it has been a few years since it has been this cold. We have an old (+100 years old) that had no insulatiion until lst summer, and there are new windows too, and new siding. New roof jsut a few years ago. We were finally ready for the cold.
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Post by walt on Dec 16, 2016 17:09:20 GMT -5
There has been a light mist much of last night and much of today. Not much water, but it is all sinking in. It got really cold last night, so the streets, well, everything, was icy this morning. But it got above freezing this afternoon, so I could go pay bills and be out of the house. I grew up on a dairy, so I was out in all weather. Actually, the worse the weather was, the longer I had to be outside. Work just took longer when weather was bad. So now I am retired and if I don't like the weather, I can stay in bed, which I did until about 11:00. Life is good.
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Post by walt on Dec 8, 2016 17:42:50 GMT -5
A bit of a shock for someone a couple of decades on deciding to put a garden in there. You mean finding out the new garden has already been double dug?
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Post by walt on Dec 7, 2016 16:20:29 GMT -5
In fact you would have become the local goose exterminator.
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Post by walt on Dec 7, 2016 16:13:19 GMT -5
I found out a few months ago that in Kansas, it is legal to be buried without a coffin in a pasture. I knew that used to be done, some of my ancestors were disposed of that way. To make it legal, one must contact the county and let them know of your desire and intent. Then have your, whoever is to put you under, contact the county again letting them know it was done. A man I had known for 30 years had this done, just a couple of years ago.
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Post by walt on Dec 7, 2016 16:03:58 GMT -5
Last week on NPR there was a story on a study newly released, showing that some new, expensive, anti-cancer medicines didn't improve quality of life nor length of life. In other words, they were worthless. In Niger, 35 years ago, I saw how western medicine was increasing life expectancy and releave pain, prevent diseases. etc. Now I see in the west that the methods that brought us better health aren't as profitable as cutting corners. So corners are cut. And in places our drinking water isn't any safer than Niger's was. No one knows how many places because if we found out, it would be expencive to fix. Cheaper to not worry about it. And any high school chemistry lab could check water safety. Why isn't it routine to have students bring in samples from home to test? Because people don't know they can take control of things like this. Yes, I was a high school chemistry teacher for a couple of years. I wish I'd known about the potential problem then and done something, at least locally.
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Post by walt on Dec 7, 2016 15:39:03 GMT -5
I have had warm weather with freezes now and then. Now the 10 day forecast has only 3 days with highs above freezing. Light snow the last 2 days, melting as it hit the ground. I turned on a little space heater in the greenhouse, set just above freezing. It will cycle on and off some with this temperature. I'll get the 2" thick styrofoam panels up, maybe tomorrow. That will turn it into a giant picnic basket. The plants won't grow but they won't die, mostly. Last year peppers and sweet potatoes lived until February. March, I was planting more to put out in the spring. It is nice to sit in the greenhouse on a cold but sunny day in winter. It is nicer to get too hot and have to open the door from the greenhouse to the house, dumping the extra solar heat in the house. But the thin clouds today only let me see where the sun is but don't let down the heat.
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Post by walt on Dec 6, 2016 14:53:25 GMT -5
Might add a little crunch. And many vegetarians could use more iron in their diet.
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Post by walt on Dec 6, 2016 14:51:02 GMT -5
It's Dec. 6 and I'm just today moving my non-hardy citrus into the greenhouse for the winter. I can remember a horrible ice storm on Halloween. about 20 years back. That used to be a common date for killing frost. This year I lost my tomato and pepper plants about 2 weeks ago. Things that take a light frost are still OK, but won't take the next week. My trifoliate oranges haven't all lost their leaves yet. The trifoliate X edible cirtus F1 hybrids aren't hurt yet, but might be any time now. They have taken a few 25F nights. That would be around -4 C or -5C I think. Not bad for that kind of plant. But winter is coming.
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Post by walt on Dec 5, 2016 18:49:46 GMT -5
Check out the Land Institute. Google it and then go to links to their publications. They are doing the most work on Intermediate wheatgrass and on intermediate wheatgrass X wheat. They are working on a variety called Kernza, or maybe it is Kernsa, I'm not sure. It has been found to have some wheat chromosome segments in it, but it is mostly intermediate wheatgrass. It is being test marketed. Most recently they have 30 acres in production. They are only sharing the seed with researchers. I don't yet know their standards for who is a researcher. They have selected for bigger seeds and higher seed yield, with success. They continue doing the same thing, since it is working. I was working on it at the Land back 30 years ago, and now that I'm retired I'm started working on it again. My project is to add a single wheat genome to intermediate wheatgrass and see how much effect it has. Also hope to try rye added to wheatgrass, but rye won't cross as easily as wheat, I expect.
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Post by walt on Dec 3, 2016 14:19:10 GMT -5
LA 0722 and a brown-seed male sterile version of Ailsa Craig tomato arrived today. I'll be sterilizing and planting 3 seeds of each and planting them today. Sterilizing seed is a precaution due to getting seeds from the gene stock center which is still fighting the viroid. Soaking 15 min. in 50% laundry bleach is suposed to do the job. The brown-seed gene is linked to the male sterile gene, so about 95% of the plants from the brown seeds will be male sterile. That will make crossing easier and quicker to identify successful crosses. F1 hybrid seeds will be the normal color. I have a condition called essential tremor, which makes my hands shake. As I age it gets worse, and hand pollinations get harder. So does typing. Otherwise it isn't a big problem It appears to be a single dominant trait. At least it isn't serious or affect my health or ability to do work, other than delicate work like pollinations. so that's why I got the male sterile-brown seed gene stock. So by spring I hope to have an F2 population segregating for cold tolerance, heat tolerance, drought tolerance, late season flavor, male sterility, brown seeds, fruit size, and plant vigor. It'll be fun.
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Post by walt on Nov 29, 2016 18:11:58 GMT -5
I am running Species Iris Group of North America's seed sale for the third year now. We have had no problems with seeds sent to us from Hungary. New Zealand, Denmark, France, Australia, Canada. Those are places I can think of right now. The seeds come through fine. They germinate and grow fine. I do send papers and shipping labels that send the seeds through a plant inspection center. That could possibly divert it around irradiation places. But I don't think it is a problem. One donor in France never waits for the permits, etc. and his have no problems either. I send seeds to the same countries, and others. Still no problems.
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