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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on May 26, 2019 17:42:10 GMT -5
I don't think citrons are cold resistant? There are a few cold resistant phenotypes, though, including some from Zimbabwe. I'm essentially doing the same thing you are, with a few other community members we want to develop a sweet watermelon with red seeds. I've got some citron seeds, but they did not look anywhere near as red as I had been led to believe. Maybe a little old? I would absolutely love red-seeded watermelon seeds, if you've got some to share! Probably old. They do loose some color the longer they sit. They are nearly bright red when fully fresh. at least citron seeds are. I've seen various shades of red in domestic seeds, so there may be some variability. Yeah, i've been wondering that as well. I know if nothing else they are at least more drought tolerant. In some crops the same genetics for drought tolerance also help with cold tolerance, but it's hard to know for sure without putting certain lines through cold tests. I know in my domestic watermelon landrace i have at least some genetics that are cold/frost tolerant to some degree as there were a few years i planted them way early and some early frosts killed off some seedlings, but not others. Other that the citron-hybrids side project i don't know if i've seed the red seed trait really reappear. I'll look through my stash and see, but with many seed genetics dominant over red it's easy to see why they don't show up that often. It would be better to use a red-seeded domestic parent in particular and cross it with a red-seeded citron type. I've found the jet black but shiny plump seeds of the citron hybrids really appealing though, so even without red color they are still pretty awesome.
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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on May 26, 2019 17:16:07 GMT -5
Poole et al. (1941) studied the inheritance of several color types including black, tan, red, clump, white tan-tip, and white pink-tip and found that these phenotypes can be explained by a 3-locus model. The black seed-color is found to be dominant over other colors, consistent with previous reports. Poole et al. proposed three genes r, t and w that interact to determine the seed color. From their crossing experiments, Poole et al. assigned the genotypes RRTTWW for black seeds, RRttWW for tan, RRTTww for clump, RRttww for white tan-tip, rrttWW for red, and rrttww for white pink-tip. They did not have observe genotypes rrTTWW and rrTTww in their experiments. From earlier study and the above genotypes, it can be inferred that rrTTWW should correspond to green seed color (McKay, 1936; Poole, 1944). Since we mentionned seeds, a few questions... What is "clump"? (RRTTww)And has anyone observed what rrTTww would be?I think "clump" is basically this type seed coat that i was referring to as "brownish with black spots". I think it is referring to the black speckled appearance, but i could be wrong. Since the original research did not include photos (as far as i am aware) we are left to speculate a bit. keen101.files.wordpress.com/2018/03/watermelonseedgenetics1.pngThis is a photo i made that aimed at simplifying it a bit and turning that data into real world examples that we could understand. I left out green seeds at the time because i thought they were relatively uncommon and also because i didn't have any real good photos of green seeds. I now have a few good photos of green seeds, so i am planning on redoing it soon. keen101.wordpress.com/2018/03/20/exploring-crazy-watermelon-genetics/biolumo.com/watermelon_genetics.htmlas far as rrTTww.... i have no idea really. It's possible some sort of epistasis could be going on that without the dominant R_ geneotype that the result is just white seeds. On the other hand i have a significant amount of seeds in my landrace population that are GREY. Since the literature makes no mention of grey seeds it either does not fit the three gene model or possibly could be rrTTww. Regardless i find it interesting. the confusion between what might be called "tan", "light-brown" or "reddish-brown" and "grey" also adds some confusion into the mix. Without pictures it's hard to know what one person is calling what color.
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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on May 25, 2019 7:52:42 GMT -5
I found one happy seedling. I'm pretty sure it was the first to germinate, so I marked it with a popsicle stick. Based on where it is I might be able to figure out which line it is from.
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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on May 24, 2019 8:41:48 GMT -5
I may be selecting for cold tolerance again this spring inadvertantly. I planted my seeds early around May 1st instead of May 10th-ish as we usually get our last snow or rain storm around then. But didn't irrigate until about the 10th. But this week around the 20th we got a late frost and temps dipped to around freezing for a night and it's been chilly and cool and rainy since.
I'm hoping the seedlings survived, but I figured there is a good chance they did. First i'm not sure if they have germinated yet. But even if they did, direct seeded seedling have slightly more cold tolerance than transplanted. Plus most of them are citron hybrids and back crosses, so they should be more hardy by a bit too. I'll check on the garden plot today and report back.
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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on May 3, 2019 9:14:48 GMT -5
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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on Apr 28, 2019 11:25:40 GMT -5
Thank you. I appreciate the nice welcome. Yes, my original line of red-podded peas from that surprise F2 I had all those years ago are still going strong. It's currently an F6 I think, and has been putting out the occasional yellow podded plant, but is otherwise now quite stable and consistent with a beautiful solid red colour. Because its flavour is still not in the same league as its looks, I'm treating it as 'breeding material' and trying out different crosses in hopes of getting something else special. I made some crosses to my yellow mangetout and yellow sugarsnap lines and am growing those out at the moment, in the small plot that I have. This is awesome! I'm excited to hear you may resurect your blog at some point! Mine are in the same boat. Flavor is not terrible, but not exciting. Red color is stable with occasional yellows being thrown out too. Snap shape and edible pods technically, but it's an odd shaped snap and I'm not happy with it. I would probably prefer a good snow pea instead. I'm using it mostly as breeding material too. I've heard that the b Gene for pink flowers might also affect the intensity of red color so that might be an interesting side goal of getting your "peachy pods" back. I'll try to take lots of pictures of mine this year too!
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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on Apr 28, 2019 11:18:18 GMT -5
cucurbitbreeding.com/watermelon-breeding/history-important-varieties/Seedless watermelon cultivars were developed as a result of the discovery by Kihara (1951) that triploid watermelons are mostly seedless. Triploid hybrids are produced by crossing two inbred lines: a tetraploid female parent with a diploid male parent (the reciprocal cross is unsuccessful). Among the first successful cultivars (6 kg size) were ‘Tri-X-313’ from O. J. Eigsti (American SunMelon, part of Syngenta), ‘AC 5244’ from W. Barham (Barham Seeds, part of Seminis). Later, mini seedless (3 kg size) cultivars were developed. One of the first successful ones was ‘Petite Perfection’ from X. Zhang (Syngenta Seeds). Tetraploids are produced by the application of colchicine or oryzalin, and can be maintained by self- or sib-pollination. They are used as maternal parents in crosses with diploids. The resulting triploid F1 hybrids, because of their odd chromosome number, are female and male sterile. Germinating pollen grains stimulate enlargement of the triploid ovaries. The fruit are not always entirely seedless, but may have small, empty seed coats and occasional hard seeds. Few tetraploids have been successful in producing triploid hybrids in the marketplace, either in the small or mini fruit sizes. Because seedless cultivars are male sterile, growers must plant a pollenzier (diploid cultivar) in order to get a high rate of fruit set. Usually, one row of the diploid is planted to for every three or four rows of triploid in the production field. The diploid and triploid cultivars should be distinguishable, such as one having round fruit with narrow stripes (seedless) and the other elongate fruit with wide stripes (seeded), so that they can be separated at harvest. An adequate bee population (two active hives per hectare) is needed for successful fruit set and to minimize the percentage of cull fruit. A second method for pollenizer use is the plant the diploid in the triploid rows, with one diploid plant for every four triploid plants. Seed production of triploid cultivars is expensive and seeds germinate poorly if conditions are less than optimum. Therefore, growers often use transplants rather than direct seeding the field. Some growers remove the seed coats before planting in order to improve germination. Production of triploid seeds and transplants, along with the need for pollenizers makes seedless cultivars significantly more expensive than seeded cultivars. However, they have become popular in North America, Europe and Japan.
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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on Apr 20, 2019 12:23:30 GMT -5
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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on Apr 19, 2019 19:29:32 GMT -5
cool! Thanks for sharing!
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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on Apr 12, 2019 8:54:28 GMT -5
Survived our second "bomb cyclone". The first one caused a 100 car pile up on the highway a few weeks back. This one was just slush which is hard to drive through. Melted today. Great water for my peas that should be sprouting soon.
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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on Apr 11, 2019 23:00:03 GMT -5
I just received seeds of "Purple Passion Hybrids" from Andrew, which suggests that no name has been decided upon. Or are these different hybrids? Nope, they are the same. Unfortunately they reverted in the last generation to greenish seeds with no purple! I am hoping the purple color will return upon growing them out again.
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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on Apr 5, 2019 16:12:39 GMT -5
(I've got some; Corne de Bélier, Golden Sweet, Shiraz, as well as Cooper, Eerste vroege Mei, Anika, Halfpint. I'm still looking for the one mangetout to match my taste.) I'll send Ton Vreeken an email tomorrow. If he's answering at all (I know he's always busy), I'll get back to you. If you could spare some seed, I'd be much obliged. I've even got an address in Atlanta you could send it to. A familymember overthere visits Germany regularly, since he's a salesman. Just let me know over my standard email account - I check my email every day. Sure, I'll try sending you an email or PM later. Sounds like you really are interested in unique peas and vegetables. I was not impressed with Shiraz. It had decent purple color but flavor was terrible for a mangetout. Midnight Snow is an interesting purple snow bred here in California that I consider my best tasting purple podded snow. Sugar Magnolia is the best purple snap peas I currently have and were used to breed the red snap. And i'm working on tasty yellow mangetouts myself. You should consider helping the pea database I started. I'd like to know the differences of various pea varieties and genetics. You can find a link from my website, biolumo.com
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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on Apr 3, 2019 13:24:42 GMT -5
keen101 & Galina, sorry to read, the both of you are still not satisfied with your red podded peas. I guess you've got access to very many different peas. Yet I'd like to point to the distributor in Dordrecht (NL) who's my source for great seeds and potatoes. As I wrote yesterday, he's got one in his list, yet marked 'sold out' for the third year in a row now. Maybe you can find some new peas you've not encountered yet; www.vreeken.nl/113500-peulen-red-podded-pea Could be some of the pictures are familiar to you. Right now I'm enjoying three new raspberries that came in yesterday from France; Rubus idaeus 'Groovy', 'Tadmor' and Rubus rosifolius 'Coronarius'. But that's another topic. Lol. Well, to be fair I do have some really nice looking red podded peas AND they also happen to be edible podded, so i am pleased with them in that regard. But like any project they could always be better. I personally think the flavor and shape of the pods could be improved, but it's minor I suppose. I have also been watching that site you linked to for several years, and I noticed some time ago that the pictures he or she is using have been ripped directly from Rebsie Fairholms blog. Some people get finicky about using other people's photos without permission, so either that person actually has seed that was originally from Rebsie herself, or that person never had any red podded peas to begin with. If you could email the site owner and find out directly that would be cool. But since they still are not available after all these years i am leaning towards believing that they will not be available from them for several more years. daughterofthesoil.blogspot.com/2010/04/red-podded-pea-update-f3-crop.html?m=1I felt mine were good enough that I decided to send them to Fedco seeds to trial them. If they like them they may sell them in the near future. Otherwise if you can wait until this summer I can send you seed of mine. Or send you non-selected seed now that might contain a few good red pods in the population. You can see my red podded pictures here: keen101.wordpress.com/category/peas/
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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on Apr 3, 2019 11:07:23 GMT -5
Hi, since the last post was from July 2017, and I'm a 1st time visitor, I wonder how far is the RPP-Project? I've been wanting to buy seeds from www.vreeken.nl, but he's having them for the 3rd year in a row as 'not available'. I'm a collector of red fleshed fruits (except strawberries) and this red podded pea would make a wonderful contribution. The peas I grow are mostly Corne de Bélier and Golden Sweet. I've tried the Blauwschokker once, since that's from my region of origin (Groningen/Drenthe, Netherlands), but I didn't like them. I prefer the mange touts. Hope to hear from anyone on this project, if the seeds are stable and available. Quintus While I already planted all my red seed for this spring last week. I do have some seed for "mostly red podded" left. I could send you some of that if you don't want to wait. It's totally possible that there could be a good red podded in that batch.
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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on Apr 3, 2019 10:39:54 GMT -5
Still not have a red podded that I am happy with. Shelling pea, no problem, but with mangetout or snow peas the red is not solid Too bad. I had parked that project for a year, but will see what this year brings. Still hoping that it might improve in later generations, like Templeton suggested. Galina, PM me your address and remind me to send you some of my red snap peas later this summer too. I'm still not perfectly happy with them either, but technically they are some sort of snap pea and seem to be stable for color. They will at least be good for breeding stock. Honestly though I want to breed them into a good snow pea rather than the odd small shaped snap it is now. So that is my plan eventually. I need to try crossing it to Midnight Snow, my best purple snow pea.
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