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Post by silverseeds on Jul 10, 2009 14:24:23 GMT -5
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DEFINATLY have the website on the seed packs, they might find it two years later, check it out and see youve got more varieties. Are you dead set on the name, it is neutral which is okay, but I think it could be cathier, and maybe thinking of a name that makes a easy webite to tell someone is a GOOd idea.
Sorry i can't backtrack.. the name is set.. i have to go with it now.. i can't have a contest or anything cause i don't have time. It will be on everything that comes out of our company.. letterheads everything. Nothing set up for you guys to make invoices or letterheads yet.. but perhaps in the future we'll get the graphics dept on that.
well baker creek is rareseeds.com but the company name is baker creek heirloom seeds.
rareseeds.com is real easy to tell someone. over the long term this simple fact could increase sales by a few percentage points.
Like harvestor.com or Seedtrain.com due to how you are building a seed bank of buying selling increasing. sounds nice and clean, then use your company name. I dont know, but as far as a buisness trying to survive online little things like this matter I think. Especially with younger people, who hopefully are the future of gardenig. The name doesnt have to be the same as the website. That being the case you should really consider having the website name easy,
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Post by americangardener on Jul 10, 2009 14:33:44 GMT -5
Ok.. there you have it everyone.. the labeling has been decided. I have to have Jo or someone make up the templates.. but i want every grower to have a template for the 2x3 inch size baggies.. and the 1x2 inch size. I'd love to go even smaller cause of shipping costs.. but those are the sizes for regular packets to sell to customers.. and trial packets that the growers are free to trade or sell on their own. That kind of stuff. It just reduces postal costs considerable. Now for envelope to mail out in.. i'm thinking of desiging a padded envelope with a window pocket on the outside where the dryed seed packets can be just slipped into that where it shows either the growers or our address on the outside. Perhaps a slip cover type thing that'll go over the packets and still fit into a window box.. but then tell them that the padded envelope is so that they can take that empty ziploc they're using for a plant marker.. and squeeze 3-4 tomatoes into it.. put back the filled in label and mail it back for a fee of course.. you all need to tell me what to price it at. But, in my mind.. it gets the service out there.. gets them informed as to how to use the labels to stay with the seeds thruout their lives.. and it still gets them to check out the site. Hey if they do use my idea of plant markers.. what's so hard about squeezing seeds and writing a couple notes? Have it so that the slipcover or whatever in the window box only needs to be flipped around. Maybe some stamps scraped off.. haven't thought but that part yet. But hey.. it's just a thought.
Dave
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Post by americangardener on Jul 10, 2009 16:54:38 GMT -5
I really have only a small idea of whats even going on All I know is a little about the package, and that you have alot of seeds. and you plan for me to mail to old ebay costumers. Im not sure what your expecting me to do. This doesnt seem to be a good way to talk about these things. because you seem to think I should know what exactly your talking about It's ok Zak..you don't need to understand any of this.. this is for the people who want to help design the labels.. not something you'll necessarily have to be involved in unless you want to. We're designing the business from the garden up Zak.. excactly what your job will entail i'm not sure yet. Thinking of ways to bring money in and still create a brand name isn't all that easy. I'm still on the design thing.. rembember everyone where i wanted the $20 value printed on the 1/4 tsp packets? Well now i want the labels in dollar bill green stock.. when the Imprint is on it i want the $20 value to look as if it's on a dollar bill. I think this ties in well with the name... seed bank.. money.. anyone else see the connection? Anyways.. that's another idea i want to go with. Beleive me it has nothing to do with selling price. Just an image and something people will imagine has a worth of $20... if i'm right they'll all be selling their seeds for more than peanuts. Ok.. and along those same lines.. i might want to consider color coding the different labels so as to make it much easier for everyone.. say dollar bill green for tomatoes, different color green for peppers, yellow say for cucumbers.. so they can double the baggie ups as a cuke beetle attractant and just smear vaseline on the outside of it. Stuff like that.. make it functional and make it memorable, and make it easy to identify which type of veggie if you were to say look into a garbage bag full of baggies.. you'd at least know where to start looking. I think color coding is the next step in improving the labels... What does anyone? Anyone at all think of my ideas? Anyways.. anyone? Dave |
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Post by flowerpower on Jul 11, 2009 6:16:38 GMT -5
Ok.. me again.. FP and SS.. if you want to get to work on those letters.. i can't think of anyone better to write those and send em out. I want some sort of price list or short version catalog to go with it though.. why waste postage. And while i'm at it.. may as well offer them all a free membership... explain to em how i'll have a public section and a membership section.. let them know they're free to post on the auction part of the public section with that membership.. and that we're planning a swap forumn for the members only section where they can trade or sell their seeds. That kind of stuff.. give it some value to membership though.. and then give it to em free. I haven't figured out any membership fees yet or any types of members.. just tell em they get a free one of any and all of em. Just a year though.. don't go giving away the store. Dave When are these being mailed? I can't write a letter until I have info on prices. And we have no web addy yet. Talk to this guy about helping with the website. Can he link us to a few he designed? Even if we could get up a list of seeds for now, that would be helpful. I'm gonna do some thinkin' about the seedpacks, etc... |
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Post by silverseeds on Jul 11, 2009 6:31:32 GMT -5
I think really small packs would be interesting, even with a minimum order. packaging would be the same but the amount of seed less, but that could be accounted for in the price. I have no idea what prices you intend to go with but if you had mini packs, you could hav, all over the website, why grow one variety, try them all find the one that fits your yard. why trust everyone elses tastebuds, grow one of each and decide for yourself. charge half price for a 1/3 of the seed or something I dunno all the numbers, but I think it would add a interesting dimention. Personally If I plan to try 2 tomatoe varieties, and I found I could try 4 for the same price, I would be pretty happy, even if a really had fewer seeds, it would be enough to try it. Im not sure how many people would agree but it might be a way to squeeze another percent or two profit atleast when packaaging is streamlined.
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Post by americangardener on Jul 11, 2009 7:07:21 GMT -5
Ok.. me again.. FP and SS.. if you want to get to work on those letters.. i can't think of anyone better to write those and send em out. I want some sort of price list or short version catalog to go with it though.. why waste postage. And while i'm at it.. may as well offer them all a free membership... explain to em how i'll have a public section and a membership section.. let them know they're free to post on the auction part of the public section with that membership.. and that we're planning a swap forumn for the members only section where they can trade or sell their seeds. That kind of stuff.. give it some value to membership though.. and then give it to em free. I haven't figured out any membership fees yet or any types of members.. just tell em they get a free one of any and all of em. Just a year though.. don't go giving away the store. Dave When are these being mailed? I can't write a letter until I have info on prices. And we have no web addy yet. Talk to this guy about helping with the website. Can he link us to a few he designed? Even if we could get up a list of seeds for now, that would be helpful. I'm gonna do some thinkin' about the seedpacks, etc... FP.. nothing is set up for mailing out those promo letters yet.. so really no set time for those to be mailed. I would say if we could get a promo letter done Asap.. we could get them ready to mail out a little closer to the start up date of the website. My deadline for the website is october 31st. I want to be able to start selling on Nov. 1st. So that gives us less than three months to get those things ready. I haven't figured any prices for anything yet.. as i said i want the "regular" 1/4 tsp paks to have that $20 value printed on the label.. not that we'd sell those for 20.. but it would be 4 times what a normall seed packet would contain at any other seed company. Let's worry bout the 1/16th tsp pak.. again i like values printed on packets instead of prices... i would assume it will be $5 value.. and we could sell for $2.50 a pk on the website. You know how that works. tell eveyone its' a 5 dollar value and we've selling at half that.. well people think it's a better deal. Anyways.. that's what i'd like to be makin at startup.. since it will be right as some people down south start buying seed. Later on after the main buying season wanes.. then i could mark them down even farther and sell em for $2 or even $1 as it gets closer to the one year mark. As you probably know seed packets have an expiration date of one year after germination testing... by law we're supposed to pull all expired packets off the market. So, like i said.. we'll make up some stock to get us thru this years sales.. and as we get closer to the expriration date of the test we'll stop paking any and just send out what we have left till we're out of stock. And have lower prices right before Oct next year. End of year clearance or something. The packets made up for trialing.. i'm still gonna sell those to the public.. but it's not selling.. it's a processing and handling fee for mailing the packets out to the customers.. not a price tag.. that will have to be a set price. I'm seriously thinking of chargin $1 per pak of those... for processing fee of course. It's just a way around the rules.. I'm sure you've seen ads on tv where they'll send you something for free.. all you have to do is pay a 19.95 processing and handling fee? Well along the same principles.. i'm not selling the packets.. i'm selling the service of sending them the packets. Since it's now selling a service instead of seeds.. those seeds don't require a germination test.. and they don't expire. Those are for trading and swapping and for growers to do as they wish with.. we're just arranging for customers to trial those growers seeds.. for a handling fee of course.. and i haven't figured out how i'm gonna incorporate the trialing i do every year with my voulenteers into the new business. I'd like to keep it going.. cept get some of the people who send in tomato seeds for fermenting or packaging to pay a fee to have their seeds in my trials. Least enough to cover postage.. that'd at least be cheaper for me to continue doing it every year. And i think it's gonna be a draw for having something where customers can trial seeds.. have some sort of sign up sheet on the website and make it where they agree to fill one baggie up with seeds at the end of the year and send it back. Those would then have to be the 2x3 inch baggies we send them out in.. since that baggie can be used as aplant marker and never has to leave the side of the seed.. it's convient for them to just take the baggie and label off a stick.. fill it out.. put it back in and squeeze seeds. I'll have to explain it all to everyone.. but it's easy. Anyways.. that's my thoughts. I haven't set any prices yet.. so how can we figure out what to put in a promo letter? As for list of seeds to sell to the public.. that's pretty simple.. just copy everything mountain valley seeds has in there online catalog.. i've got everything they've got. It'd be a start. And those commercial seeds.. well i put a value of $5 on those 1/4 tsp packets.. not that they'll be sold for that mind you.. but 120 seeds in a tomato packet is an awfull lot for a home gardener. I think when it comes to the other type veggies we should just make the packaging to match the prices.. say we want to put $5 on the paket.. we'd make like a pound of beans or something.. I can get commercial beans for bout a couple bucks a pound.. so even there i'd make a profit off em. But we'll see.. i don't want to waste postage on heavier items.. and i won't have enough seed for more than a handfull of beans and peas and corn this year.. so actually i'd perfer not to even waste time selling those.. but then again we'll need some to attract customers.. so .. it's gonna be a nitemare.. i know.. I'd say we have one set price to sell everything.. say $3. for the 1/4 tsp size packets (of tomatoes) $2 for the 1/16th size packets.. or maybe a dollar each for processing trial packets. OH i don't know.. The web addy will have to wait till next month if i have to pay for it.. i'm gonna invest another $350 next month and that should cover that expense and still get some supplies set up.. or i could use the $200 or so and file the articles of incorporation.. one or the other. Unless i get some serious investors i'm paying this startup entirely out of my own pocket.. so bear with me.. I'll get one of those two things done next month. the other will be the month after unless i find some money somewhere. |
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Post by americangardener on Jul 11, 2009 10:09:01 GMT -5
Ok.. who wants to start first? FP.. i was thinking i could send you the baggies or have you order them. I'll put you on the paypal account and you can be treasurer this week. Order all the supplies you can get and see if you can't ship some to Zac directly from the manufacturer.. i'd say ten thousand ziplocs will come out to somewhere around $70.. but it's been a while since i've ordered. The 2x3" size are usually the cheapest.. even cheaper than 1x1 inch size.. so those are what i order the most of. Won't need any pound size baggies.. i have those. I have a couple thousand 2x3's left too.. but it wouldn't be sensible to mail those down to anyone. It'd be cheaper to order new.
Then while you're in the paypal Lynne.. go ahead and order another paypal card for yourself.. you'll be needing it if you want to order more supplies later.
Is all that ok with you? I have 4 tomato varieties i want to get started on now. They should be the earliest out of all mine.. and i have about 50 plants of all 4 together. I'd show pictures.. but there's nothing to show yet.. just blossoming. Anyways.. i have a couple ounces of last years seed.. i germ tested them at 90% and those are the ones i'll be harvesting from bagged blossoms this year. The other trial ones i may not. But, i'm expecting a good 50 lbs of wet tomato seeds out of those 4 varieties.. so i might as well get the labels made up and start packing some of the seeds i do have. Put em down as Lot#0 on the labels if it's ever anything we don't process ourselfs. Anyways.. who wants to make up something like 50 packets of each in assorted sizes. Say most the 1/16th tsp size.. with a few 1/4 tsp and alot of trial size ones. I'll send the seeds and a couple hundred baggies if i have to. And now that i think about it we may need alot of small size baggies for the trial seeds. You probably have no idea how that postage adds up for the larger baggies.. we have to pay for the weight of the packaging as well as the weight of the seeds when we ship.. so i like to keep the weight down wherever possible.
Anyways.. think i'm rambling now.. i got to go package up some seeds to mail out to another person Zac.. if i can i'll get your package with those beans ready to mail too. I wanted to know if you'll grow some for increases for me for next season. I got some Nuna beans and some phaseolus vugaris var aborfgineus and acutifolius, and some more coccineus varieties if you want to give em a go.. you're the one with the climate for em.. i can't grow those myself. Anyways.. if you want to grow em for increases i'll send em all down to you.. you can packet em up in trial packets if nothing else.
Dave
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Post by americangardener on Jul 11, 2009 17:18:10 GMT -5
Am i losing anyone yet? Ok.. sorry to keep spouting off here.. but on the pricing thing.. i can only go by tomatoes right now.. everything will be different proportions for different prices. We'll have to make some standard sizes and some standard measures for all of them.. but we may not be able to keep them all uniform in price. Anyways.. here's where i'm heading on the tomato prices... first off like i said with the value thing.. 1/4 tsp of seeds which is aproximately 100-120 will have the value of $20 on the backside of the label.. and yes i've been working on labels too. But then the new size will be 1/8 tsp.. which would stand to reason would be around 50-60 seeds for most regular sized seeded varieties.. beefsteaks and cherrys are more like 75-100 seeds on some. But anyways.. standard size of 1/8 and then the next one down will be the trial packets. Here's what i'm thinking of list price... $7.50 for the 1/4 tsp, $5 for the 1/8th tsp, and finally $2.50 for the trial size. Now again.. that's list price.. i want to have a grand opening sale of half off.. so you can all do the math.. that will leave me $1.25 for each of the trial size packets.. and that will more than pay the costs...it'd make a slight profit there.
And on the membership.. i was thinking of offering new members 15 trial packets of our choice for a 6 month membership @ $10/6 months. Anyone have any thoughts on that? Tell em how they can trade or sell their extra seeds amoungst the other members on our fourumn.. which we don't have yet. And sell or auction their seeds on the public page in a little section i'm trying to make for that. But, we'll see how it goes.. i want both public and members pages for my website.. .don't know how to do it yet.. but i will. And i checked into the post it pads.. i think it will work... i did a prototype and it's perfect for what i want for the trial packets. I'm checking to see if this one manufacturer can do it first of all and then the price for imprinting.. and i've still got to get a template made up. So that's where that stands.. in the meantime we'll use copy paper.
Dave
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Post by flowerpower on Jul 12, 2009 6:36:31 GMT -5
OK I will look into the baggie situation. Maybe one day this week, we could brainstorm in chat for an hr?
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Post by americangardener on Jul 12, 2009 8:54:51 GMT -5
OK I will look into the baggie situation. Maybe one day this week, we could brainstorm in chat for an hr? Ok.. the money is in the account for supplies.. we have a new investor people.. don't know if he wants me to let you all know who he is or not.. but follks we have an investor besides me. There should be enough to get supplies and get the website domain and pay the filing fee for the incorporation by the first week of next month. Now i just have to get the business plan refined and ready to go with the application. And line up some help with the website. FP.. i just looked at aplasticbag.com and they have the 2x3 inch size baggies on sale for $4 per thousand.. and the 1 1/2 inch x 2 inch size for $3/M, so i figure ten thousand of each will be a good start. Still we'll need reams of paper and a copier or printer in order to make our own labels.. so i'm still working on getting a quote for the packaging i want to use for trial size one dozen seed packets. Those.. i'm sorry to say our biggest cost is you guys.. the time it takes to count out 12 seeds is far more than it takes to just put a scoop into a packet. That's time consuming.. so the 1 dozen actually cost more to package than the 1/8th tsp size does. And of course people want lower prices on the trial sizes. So that's where i've got to cut costs. I can't do anything bout the time involved with counting the seeds.. but i can eliminate the steps of making our own labels to put in the packets...and i can cut down on the fixed costs of packaging materials for those.. and i can cut down on the final packet weight to save on postage. Cause it may not be obvious to everyone.. but a hundred packets of 2x3 ziplocs.. even with nothing in em will weight ten times more than a hundred packets filled with my new packaging idea. So.. hope you can see the reason for reducing shipping weight. It makes it cheaper and easier to send seeds overseas when i can get the weight down too. Anyways.. the customer rep from this one manufacturer hasn't gotten me a quote on the packaging i want yet.. but even if i can get it for as much as 2 or 3 cents a packet.. it will be worth it in cost savings for copying paper, time, and weight for shipping reduction. So we'll see. Normal prices for the stock paper they have on their site is as low as $2/M.. imprinted with four lines.. but like i said this will be a custom order to our design. So if i can get em for even 2 cents that's ten times what the stock paper is. Mine is just a simple modification to that and i could get by with 4 lines of imprint on those if need be. Anyways.. we have some money to start getting supplies and i'll be sending some tomato seeds down to each of you to get started packing.. i figure i'll list 200-300 varieties of tomatoes on the site if i can get that to work.. and those i'd want possibly 50 packets of regular size and however many trial size as we can get for each variety. As you can see that'll eat up 10,000 baggies right quick. And it's gonna take a while .. i'm telling ya.. as streamlined as i can make the measuring and packing part it's still time consuming and boring. Just wait to you do nothing but package seeds all day long.. you'll see. DAve |
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Post by americangardener on Jul 12, 2009 9:35:53 GMT -5
OK.. now i got a question for Dan...
Dan.. do you think i can borrow some of your varieties that you'll have more than 50 1/8 tsp packets of? That'd be what 6 or so tsps? I've got like i said 300 varieties or so of mine.. but most of mine i don't have germ tested yet and i don't have pictures for.. and i haven't written down descriptions anywheres except on that piece of paper i keep inside the baggies. And that'll take me time to get all mine ready. If you have some pictures of those varieties i traded ya in 2007 i'm gonna borrow the pictures from your picsa album anyways.. and if i can find em.. your descriptions.. that should be in the spreadsheet if i recall. But, just thought i'd let you know and ask if you have any fresher seed. Let me know if you want to work out some kind of a deal.
Dave
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Post by americangardener on Jul 12, 2009 9:38:45 GMT -5
OPPss.. again i forgot.. FP.. i can't get into chat.. my computer dosen't like me. It won't let me install any programs.. been like this for over a year.. the install wizard is corrupted.. and that's why my printer won't work too.. i can't re-install the printer drivers without the install wizard. And i'm just not ready to erase my whole hard drive and re-install XP. So i can't chat.
Can't skype either.. or instant message... or well you know.. it's hard working with antiques.
Dave
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Post by americangardener on Jul 12, 2009 9:56:34 GMT -5
Ok.. i'm still in desperate need of some writers.. I want a write up to use on the website, newsletter, emails and printed letter that i can use to explain the labeling to customers and growers and members so that eveyone will know the reasons behind what we choose to packet our seeds in. Build it up as functional, since those baggie covered labels do last a season.. i use em in my garden. It's convient to have that so you can jot down notes anytime you want on there.. and it's convient for our record system.. they return the baggie filled with seeds and with that label inside we don't have to go making new numbers and adding new data into a database.. the number stays the same for the variety.. only the grower info changes. And i'm thinking people.. should we have some sort of code for members so that only we know who those members are? Something along the lines of what seedsavers does. That to me is a good system.. i may even use the exact same codes just so i can intergrate any members who are also members of seedsavers into our system better. What do you think of keeping those codes? It'd be better than putting the members addresses on there.. or we could still do that too.. i want at least some contact info so that we can contact the grower of those seeds. Email address at least.
And back to the memberships.. i'm thinking of explaining all of the process of squeezing seeds into a baggie and mailing it back to the trial members and tell them that if they return the baggie filled with the seeds from 3-4 large size tomatoes.. nothing else.. just seeds.. along with our label.. that we will give them a free 1 year membership for each baggie they return.. and also give em 15 trial packets.. that cost will be neglibible. What do you all think of that idea. I can't tell you how important it is to me to receive the seeds in the wet stage... it means i have control over how they are fermented and i can feel confident to put my name on the label is all.. nothing against anyone else's fermenting methods.. just i want to be able to tell a customer how they were done if i have to. Nothing personal against anyone elses methods... i just have my own ways.
Dave
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Post by americangardener on Jul 12, 2009 10:18:42 GMT -5
FP and Zac.. ok.. here's what i've thought bout doing.. you let me know your thoughts.. you'll be doing the packing.
My idea is to make up an ad... offering one free trial packet for free if they pay the postage and packaging and handling costs. What do you think.. you'll be the ones who are my postage and handling. Should we make it where they send a SASE and 25 cents for each trial packet? Something like that? As i said i've got over 3000 varieties of just tomatoes. Tell em if they return the empty ziploc along with the label and filled with wet seeds at the end of the season we'll give them a free membership to the members area. Ask em if they want to join our team of voulenteer members who do the reports and trials. See if they want to be on our newsletter list.. and all that stuff when we send them the trial packet. And like i said.. i want some sort of price list.. set prices i guess FP.. $7.50 for 1/4 tsp, $5 for 1/8tsp, $2.50 for 1/16th tsp, and one dozen seed trialing size packets for $.25-50 depending on the rarity. I can tell ya i'll have thousands of more trialing size packets than we will regular size packets if i'm guessing right. That's why it's important to me to streamline those right now.
Dave
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Post by americangardener on Jul 12, 2009 22:39:24 GMT -5
Ok.. don't mind me.. just thinking out loud.. been thinking bout how to do the international sales. I pretty much know more people in other countries than i do here.. and most of them have more seeds than i do. I was thinking of listing Countries seperately for now... so that Canada had it's own listings and those could be filled by someone in canada. I know Dan and Michel know how to ship internationally.. but that's cause we can get away with it as for breeding purposes.. but i don't know bout sending to home gardeners in canada and other countires.. it wouldn't be worth the hassle of getting a pyshco-sanitary certificate... but if anyone in Canada is interested in selling anything on your own to the customers in canada.. then just send you info to my website committee.. yeah right.. just PM me and I see what i can do. You don't have to be a part of the company.. we can arrange some kind of indepenant contractor arrangement or something. I really do hope to make some money off the memberships eventually but first i have to have something they'd want to keep coming back for. All i've got so far are trial packets.. which if i get this packaging worked out will fit 8 to a regular business size envelope.. you could get proably get 54 trial packets in one envelope for 44 cents. I know those seeds will make it thru the postal machines the way i'm gonna do it.. so there really is no need for bubble mailers. People are just paranoid about em being crushed.. and i've never had one crushed yet and i've been sending them that way for years. Really is no need for bubble mailers.. but you people doing the packaging are gonna need to get some most likely. I get mine at the dollar store. 5 for a dollar. That's the cheapest i could find. Perfect size too. Oh well you guys doing the packaging.. you can send em to me without bubble mailers.. and then i'll decide when the orders are filled wether or not to use one.
See.. told ya i was just thinking out loud.. now i got to get back to work on the business plan and application.
Dave
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