HOW TO START A BUSINESS WITHOUT REALLY TRYING!

[americangardener]

I KNOW.. very strange title for a topic under the a little bout myself forumn. But, it works for me. What better way for everyone to get to know me than to get inside my head.

Now, some of ya know already i've decided to give it one more go at starting another business before i die. I've done several before.. some were successfull some not quite so well.

What i'm contemplating doing is chronicleing the steps i'm gonna be going thru here as i start up my last one. This one as i've mentioned before is gonna be another Sub chapter S corportation. Anyone else of ya that are starting up sole proprietorships, partnerships, or non-profits.. i'll be glad to help ya out with questions bout those as i go. I got strong opinions bout each and which is best for what purposes. But, as it is i'm gonna be talking mostly bout S corps.

Now, just for those of ya that don't already know.. S corps are different than C corporations in a couple of different ways. One they are limited to 35 shareholders, two the shareholders must all be individuals.. can't be other corporations. While S corps can own stock in C corps it dosen't work the other way around. And finally i guess the last big distinction between the two would be that S corps aren't taxed on the corporate level. The taxes are paid by the individual shareholders when they take profits out of it.

That's basically what i'm gonna be able to tell ya all that's important for now. The laws are quite simple.. The corp is required to have regular monthly meetings of it's board of directors, have yearly elections, and file an annual report to the government at the end of the fiscal year.

Now, that's basically what i've got to work with. It's my intention to set up an S corp by the first of January 09. Maybe a little beyond that when i file.. but it'll still be for a calendar year fiscal year. I figure this is the best choice for tax purposes, and for ease of recordkeeping. Since i'm not able to afford lawyers and accountants at this time i figure i'll be saddled with those tasks untill the company can afford it. I see no problem muddling thru the first year or so. I can handle the filing of articles of incorporation myself.

I will admit that my accounting skills aren't CPA caliber.. but i can handle stock issuances and a basic balance sheet till we can afford or really need an accountant.

Again.. i only took two years of accounting in college.. and i skipped most of those classes. I'm not gonna make excuses.. just state reasons.. it was cause i was working 10-12 hours/day as an electrician, going to college full time, trying to raise my 12 year old daughter, and running a non profit corporation at the same time. So, my accounting skills won't be adequate for the long run.. but till i can get another more qualified person to handle those responsiblities it's just one of the many hats i'll need to wear in the beginning.

I do believe that alot of my experience from being on the board of directors of that non-profit for bout ten years will be transferrable to what my new venture is gonna be. It'll be different i'm sure to try and run a seed company than it was to run a building corporation.. but if need be i'll learn how to change from contracts to purchase agreements or whatever seed companies need to operate. Again.. some things will be usefull from past experience.. some won't.

Now, i guess that'll be enough background info bout me. If i got any advice to anyone else wanting to start up a new business.. it would be to start with something ya got experience with. Learn as much as ya can bout doing whatever ya want to do before ya actually jump right into it.. and plan, plan, plan!

That'll be what i'll be talking bout in my next post most likely. It's the stage i'm at with this S corp. I've got bout two months to put together a business plan and a mission statement. And for anyone wanting to startup a company of any kind.. i can't stress strongly enough how important a business plan is. It's just one piece of the puzzle.. but it's a very usefull piece. Dosen't have ta be anything long and drawn out in the beginning.. just where ya want to go with your dreams, and how ya plan to get there. It's something ya can't really go back and do once you're well under way and ya won't have time to backtrack. So that's why i stress it. I've seen many companies get way ahead of themselves without one.. and before ya know it they have no idea what they're doing or where they're going. Just an observation..

Now i'm gonna get to work on one myself. I can use any and all constructive critisims in the next two months. I don't intend to include projected sales estimates or any other really technical financial details. For me.. it's more bout what i want to do and how to get there. So, i guess it'll be just an expansion of the mission statement to some degree. I don't figure it'll be anything fancy.

Well that's it for now.. i'm sure i'll be coming back regularly to post my ideas.. I'd hope ya all will help out with any comments and advice in the meantime. As ya can see i'll need lots of help.

Oh.. since i mentioned it.. that's one more important thing for anyone else starting out in any kind of business. Get all the help ya can. If i've learned anything in life.. it's that ya can't do it without help.

That's it for now..

Dave

[americangardener]

Well i'm back at it again... Hope this ain't bothering anyone. But when i get ideas i write em down. And that's another suggestion for anyone starting up a new business.. get yourself a notepad and write things down. If you got anywhere near as clogged a memory as i do it'll become invaluable. Right now, i'm just using this forumn for my ideas.. just ta share with anyone contemplating starting your own.. but i do have several notepads too.

Now, i know i mentioned my next post would probably be about the business plan... but this ain't it. I'm putting it off till final hours till i actually put pen to paper and get it done. For the time being i'm just having too much fun on my little fishing expedition here. In the past few days i've gotten a few nibbles and i've gotten alot of advice from some really good friends. I'll be putting it all down in writing when the time comes.

Now.. since i've not yet got the steering committee organized here's just a few of my thoughts i'll like to kick around when i do. I was thinking bout how i can best help everyone involved to realize their dreams. It's just a mission in my life to make people happy. Something wrong with me that way i guess. I've never been much for money.. but if that's what it'll take to get everyone happy that's what i'll make. I'm gonna try and create jobs for everyone who wants em too. I think it'll be possible... i mean i have built homes for hundreds of people to make their lives better... how much harder could this goal be?

Now, keeping in mind, i'm insane.. this is one thing i was thinking bout. I was thinking when i do get the website up and running to allow everyone here.. and possibly from other forumns too.. to sell their products or seeds on some sort of consignment basis. Don't got it all thought out in my head yet.. but hey.. if thrift stores can manage it.. i think i can manage it.

I'll still be needing lots of info from all of you that are reading this... simple ideas will be fine. I'd like to know.. what kind of things do you look for in seed companies? Variety, price, quality, and customer service wise. I think i know.. and i think i know which way i'm hoping to go with the price structuring.. but i also gotta consider what's fair to the breeders and suppliers when i do set this site up too. Those are also things which can wait till spring.. not neccessarily things that'll have to be put into a business plan.. but it may make some difference which way the company goes. Right now there's plenty of options.. and they're all on the table. Could even go after the commercial market, do bulk sales, offer exclusive varieties or all of the above and more.

Anyways.. i'm just thinking out loud here... I know some people have wondered already why i didn't just go with a sole proprietorship. One big reason.. i don't like em... they're not something where i would want to risk all my personal wealth (dirt) should anything ever go drastically wrong. They're not something i could pass on to my heirs.. and they just never seem to operate within the law from what most of em i've observed are like. Not that i couldn't tweak it to make it work for me.. but i just perfer what i already know best... and that's teamwork.

Anyways.. just thought i'd bugg ya all some more bout it.

Dave

[americangardener]

Alan.. i brought ya over to this thread to give ya a response so i could free up Jims thread so he can get back to those very interesting discussions on breeding projects.

Oct 7, 2008 11:59:08 GMT -5 Alan said:

Dave,

Good luck with your new "baby". I definetly would love to be involved with this in one way or another, weather it is just growing out seed, offering new OP varieties from our breeding experiments here on the site, publishing papers on your web-site, or something more involved than that.

I've got a lot on my plate right now but can always make room for more, exspecially to help out a friend.

My business plan as of late has relied more on the "underground economy" side of things than on the legitimate enterprise. Utilizing lots of message boards, "swap shop" radio programs, local outlets, newspapers and soon a site with a pay pal option offering everything from hatching eggs, seeds, seedlings, worm castings and lots of other stuff.

Keep me updated buddy!

-Alan

First thanks for the well wishes..

Thanks for the extended hand of help too. You know i'll be taking you up on it when i'm down. Course like with Michel i could find a million and one ways to use you too.. it's just something i'm good at is finding peoples talents and putting em to use. I'll try not to get ya any more on that plate of yours than you want though.

And ya know i'm gonna be there if you need any help with your business too. I'm gonna be busy.. you're gonna be busy.. and we're all gonna be busy.. that's just what businessmen are is busy. But, i'm sure we'll find several ways where we can be mutually benefical to each other while we're on these journeys.

I'm sure we can talk bout alot of the details over the winter here. As ya see right now i'm pacing myself.. i got plenty of time to do what steps i need to at a comfortable pace for me. At this pace i could be everything in the corporation from secretary to president... it won't be till later on where i'll be really needing alot of help. So, anytime ya feel like stopping by and giving advice, comments or critisims while i'm doing this chronicle this winter.. feel free.

Dave

[americangardener]

Yeah.. i'm back to haunt your thoughts yet again. Just so ya don't think i've given up.. i've been filling up those notepads like crazy. Just ain't bothering ya all with those minor details. Been burning up the internet looking for an talking with everyone i know too.

But, i'm back here yet again just to spout a little more. Ya know, i'm not only doing this chronicle for me. I'm hoping it can help anyone of ya thinking of starting your own business. I remember decades ago when i first started businesses that there were no models available to follow.. still aren't. So that's what i'm hoping is that i can be of some help to anyone just starting out. Anyone who wants help.. i'm here.. i'd be glad to talk bout any kind of business with any concerns bout any aspect.

Now i remember months ago when someone came to this forumn asking for help starting up a non-profit. I gave her the advice i've just given above and i've never heard a word from her since. So, this is for you.. i'll pick up where i left off. And i really truly do hope that you haven't given up on your dream.

Now.. i'm gonna say a few things.. and as i continue with my chronicle here ya can see if i'm following my own examples or not.

First off i told ya to get the business outline, get your notepads, take copius notes, contact everyone ya know, and then put together a group of people to help ya... Then incorporate!

Sound familiar yet?

Yeah i know you can incorporate and do everything a sole proprietorship can do without the liabilities.. ya you can be a corporation of one! And even by yourself you're liable to be much more successfull if ya do everything above board and legal.. cause ya can never get anywhere trying to fly under the radar. Sure some people make it.. but I'm not gonna recomend it.

My advice to anyone wanting to start a business is to get all the help ya can.. don't ever try to do everything all by yourself if you don't have to. Get help.. get lots of it. Whether it's a for profit or not.. money is just a tool.. people are invaluable.

I remember when i first started up my non profit.. i got over 3,000 voulenteers my first year.. and i can tell ya i needed every one of em.. and i used em all. Robin.. if you're listening, I'd just like to say you can get much more done with 2 people or three, or three thousand than ya can with just yourself. Things move at lightning speed when you can all do different things for the same goals. Would ya rather reach your goals in 50 years or would rather reach em in five? Just think bout what i say.

Ok.. guess i'm done ranting for today.. still if anyone wants to butt in and say anything.. that's what i'm here for. I can always take advice too.. i take as well as i give.

Dave

[americangardener]

Hello it's me again.. just taking up more space.

I'm sorta at an impasse here with the business plan so i figured i'd use the time today to come and update the chonicles. I tried contacting Robin to see if she wanted any help while i'm at it.. but so far no response.

Anyways.. i'd just like to say if you're working on the things i mentioned. And you do come to a time where you just feel it's too overwhelming and that you're running out of ideas, and that it's going too slowly.. just keep faith. It'll pass. things will come together in time. I know i've been there before.. done that. There is a light at the end of the tunnel, you just can't see it yet.

Now.. if anyone is starting up a non-profit, or a partnership or any other type business.. some of the things i'm about to say are completely different for those than what i have set up.

If you're working on a non-profit.. you should still be lining up your contacts. Keep working on the business outline and try and get input for new ideas. It don't matter if you're gonna have a board of directors or do it all yourself.. those ideas will be helpfull to kick start your thoughts about what direction to follow.

For you.. i would recomend getting a steering committee together such as i'm doing for my corp. You may want to fast track the incorporation though so that you can start approaching foundations for grants. The sooner you are a legitimate 501c3 the sooner large corporations and even other indivual people will be willing to donate for the tax write offs.

Me i'm still taking my time with this one. But even those of you with other set ups. You'd want to be getting that business plan done soon along with a mission statement if you're thinking of getting financial help. Don't know bout all of your cities.. but in mine here in detroit we have a group of millionaires who meet once a month to listen to people like me's business ideas. They're called venture capitalists. Here it's mostly pro football players and other wealthy business leaders.. but it may be something similiar in your area. They usually give ya 5 minutes to present your plan.. and if they like it they'll invest. And i've seen em invest in some real weird ideas. One a comic book springs to mind. But, for those of ya that don't want to give up 51% of your business i'd suggest waiting till you get incorporated like mine so you'll have better negotiating clout.

Now that being said.. i don't have much to update right now.. My business plan is still in bits and pieces on a couple notepads. I'm hoping i can get some of those new ideas when i set up my own steering committee here in a little while. That's why it's not finished. I could just say hey i want this and that.. but what i want right now may change with fresh ideas. I am pretty set on the mission statement though.. That i figure will be to make low cost seeds of every open pollinated vegetable available to everyone around the world. Seedsavers or not.. and not excluding hybrids, just specializing in OP to start.

I know with my business.. if i accomplish my goal i put myself out of work. It's a self fullfilling phrophecy. The better i am at doing it the less it will be needing to be done. That's the problem with OP's ya only need to sell em once.

Anyways.. that's bout all i got to say about that. I'll get back when things start moving faster and falling into place. Right now it's just a lull in the action waiting for time to pass.

Keep on dreaming..
Dave

[americangardener]

OK.. Time for another installment in my chronicles.

So far it seems like nothing is getting done and that it's moving way too slow. Frustrating really to want to see more done and not having anything new to work on for the time being.

I suppose anyone else starting up at this stage will be feeling the same way. Guess all i can say is keep the faith and getherdone.

I'm still working on getting that steering committee set up so that we can have our first online meeting on Nov 2nd. That'll give us two months to meet before i incorporate.

I've been reading thru the documents i'll need to file with the SEC and apparently all the original incorporators have to sign a form stating they want to be an S corp instead of a C corp. Seeings that might take a little doing, i was thinking i'd just incorporate the company first then I could just select S corp myself. Anyone wanted to change it later you could always vote if you're a shareholder. Which i may or may not have a few people interested in being. Too soon to tell yet.
Then i did find out that the class of stock i'm gonna be using does allow for tennants in common and for rights of survivorship.. it's the 2441 class if anyone's interested. Anyways.. tennants in common are still treated as just one shareholder when it comes to my 35 stockholder limit. I'm limited to issuing 1,000,000 dollars or less in stock.. and i'm purchasing 100,000 shares which i'll be making available for 10 each. I got other things in the BP for transfer rules, options, and rembtion of em.. but no need to bother with it here.

Business plan is still in shambles.. and other than that i'm still working on setting up some growers and suppliers for when i get ready to start the website up. And that i'm having second thoughts on... i think perhaps it should be started up earlier.. way earlier. Say like feb or so that my people can have time to work on it over the winter when things aren't as hectic outside. Still don't need to start up sales till fall.. but i think it'd be easier to spread that task out for longer.

As for the growing.. you all know bout my trials i'm doing. And i'm looking for people with help with seed increases. alanbishop.proboards60.com/index.cgi?board=strange&action=display&thread=1518&page=2 And just possibly i got another ten acres i can use for next years growouts. My youngest daughters fiance's parents have ten acres they said i could use. I haven't checked it out yet though.

AHHH it's just a mess still. I'll be back later on to update this message i'm sure. It's like tryinhg to put together a 1000 piece puzzle the hard way. Trying to find a thousand people to each take one piece and put it exactly where it goes the first try.

But, it'll work out.

Dave

alanbishop.proboards60.com/index.cgi?action=viewprofile&user=americangardener

[americangardener]

Still nothing getting done fast enough. I've got to start putting the Business plan into one piece. I'm kinda leaning towards having a website set up for seed trading on there too. Sorta like J.L. Hudson on ebay.. cept without auctions. I'll figure it out more if anyone has any suggestions.

Now i was just asked what i'm gonna do with all the seeds i trade for. Someone seemed to be concerned i might sell them... the answer is yes.. definately if someone thinks enough of em to grow a large quantity sure i'll sell em.

The way i envision my company is a collabative working arrangements between growers who are seedsavers working with home gardeners for trialing. Anything worthwhile any of the breeders want to offer will also be welcome. Foreign buyers and traders who are seed savers are more than welcome to trade whatever they get from trial samples too.

I'm just hoping to be a seedsavers selection with the availability to everyone.. auction sites don't work.. it'd be cheaper to run a website than to pay those exorbidant fees. I know for a fact i can sell packets at 20cents ea and make a nice profit..so that's where i'm stuck. I'm trying to figure out which way to go on pricing. According to the poll up top seems not so many people are concerned about pricing. Well i'll figure it out too. Just so anyone knows.. i do kind of have set ideas on packet sizes. 1/2 dz sampler, 1/8 tsp, 1/4tsp, and one teaspoon size packets for most of the smaller seeds like tomatoes or peppers, etc. Just haven't figured out pricing yet.

Welp.. that's the dialema for tonite. I've already told ya i'm gonna be the sole incorporator to start it off so i can choose S-corp without having to send around forms to be signed first.

Other than that.. the puzzle is still all scrambled.
alanbishop.proboards60.com/index.cgi?action=bookmarks
Dave

Edited part: Here's an idea i've been playing with. It's about how to set up some sort of consignment sales system. I was thinking of having each breeder or grower for increases send enough seeds to produce 50-100 packets at first. And when those are low i'd send the profits back to purchase more stock as needed. It would only need to be 3-4 large size tomatoes or 15-20 cherry to get it listed. But, just an idea!

[orflo]

Dave,
for me it was all a bit confusing ;the last post made it a bit more comprehensable. But still I get the idea you want to offer in your first year 1000 or more tomato or pepper varieties,just to mention these two. Is that a wrong idea??
Now, I do believe in a sort of seed-savers outgrowing network, it's an easy way to grow seeds of things that cross quickly, kales or squash or whatever...The thing is: you have to rely on people (not everyone has the knowledge or experience to grow out a decent amount of cauliflower or ...).
Personally I would go for a small-scale firm, without the negative impact it would have on the environment, but that's how I see it. And this seed-savers network could be an answer to this. If twenty people grow twenty varieties of leek, you'll probably have one of the biggest offers of leek anywhere , without all the necessary isolation problems, ....
I do happen to be part of an other network of seed saving (realseeds, uk based), and grow out some stuff for Kokopelli ,France. It takes up time (I don't mind, but other people???), energy,...So people should realise that !!!
I receive lots of seeds (outside this network), and I sometimes come to the conclusion this or that isn't the 'true' variety. And that's a pity. There used to be a small firm in Holland, family-owned. They had good stuff, a small selection of organic grown seeds, a quite wide offer of lots of vegetables, things like asparagus pea, scorzonera, turnip, turnip greens,... The brothers who owned the firm became old, sold the firm to other people, and these people are obviously trying to enlarge the firm. The result is: Parsley isn't true-to-type any more, same goes for the one carrot variety I got from them. I don't blame them, but I think they just see it too 'big', so these crossings or ... do appear more easily...
Now, I'm certainly willing to grow out stuff.
Perhaps it's best you go for a 'clear' approach, for example if people grow out 1 ounce of seeds, they get a choice of some other varieties, or they even get paid, if you think that's better.
Well, these are just some opinions, it's a bit of a 'mixed' message ;D ;D ;D,
Frank

[canadamike]

I would start by a smaller offering, relying on what I have and a core group of suppliers, then expand. In tomatoes, you might end up in troubles with the potato leafs, so I guess the RL should make up the bulk at first.
As for peppers, this out crossing thing is pure mystery to me. I am ok here, I get them true to seeds, but in all honesty I have not saved tons of them, and some people seem to be like me while some others have a lot of out crossing. The situation is the same in beans.

[americangardener]

Oct 20, 2008 0:44:47 GMT -5 orflo said:

Dave,
for me it was all a bit confusing ;the last post made it a bit more comprehensable. But still I get the idea you want to offer in your first year 1000 or more tomato or pepper varieties,just to mention these two. Is that a wrong idea??
Now, I do believe in a sort of seed-savers outgrowing network, it's an easy way to grow seeds of things that cross quickly, kales or squash or whatever...The thing is: you have to rely on people (not everyone has the knowledge or experience to grow out a decent amount of cauliflower or ...).
Personally I would go for a small-scale firm, without the negative impact it would have on the environment, but that's how I see it. And this seed-savers network could be an answer to this. If twenty people grow twenty varieties of leek, you'll probably have one of the biggest offers of leek anywhere , without all the necessary isolation problems, ....
I do happen to be part of an other network of seed saving (realseeds, uk based), and grow out some stuff for Kokopelli ,France. It takes up time (I don't mind, but other people???), energy,...So people should realise that !!!
I receive lots of seeds (outside this network), and I sometimes come to the conclusion this or that isn't the 'true' variety. And that's a pity. There used to be a small firm in Holland, family-owned. They had good stuff, a small selection of organic grown seeds, a quite wide offer of lots of vegetables, things like asparagus pea, scorzonera, turnip, turnip greens,... The brothers who owned the firm became old, sold the firm to other people, and these people are obviously trying to enlarge the firm. The result is: Parsley isn't true-to-type any more, same goes for the one carrot variety I got from them. I don't blame them, but I think they just see it too 'big', so these crossings or ... do appear more easily...
Now, I'm certainly willing to grow out stuff.
Perhaps it's best you go for a 'clear' approach, for example if people grow out 1 ounce of seeds, they get a choice of some other varieties, or they even get paid, if you think that's better.
Well, these are just some opinions, it's a bit of a 'mixed' message ;D ;D ;D,
Frank

FINALLY some feedback! I was beginning to think i was talking to a wall. Almost drives a person crazy sometimes talking and not getting any responses. Almost makes me feel like i'm being ignored and i really am crazy.

But, first off i'd like to say thanks for any and all feedback ya all can give. I am determined to do a few things that i'm set on accomplishing.. just the manner about how to accomplish em i'm needing help and suggestions about.

If you think it's confusing on your end Frank.. imagine what it's like trying to do a thousand different things at once and seeing no appreciable results immediately. I can see this is already different than starting up a non profit where i had me 3000 people to help me just in my first year. It's different cause no one wants to do things for free and i can fully understand that! That's why i set it up as a for profit in the first place to get some people some money for their work. Problem is there isn't any money coming in yet. I'll work it out though.

As for the number of varieties to start off.. well i may have overstated if i said i wanted 1000 tomato varieties the first year. I'm thinking i have about 200 varieties that aren't well circulated now that i could list.. and the rest i'll introduce after trialing and testing and verifying purity of strains and being true to type. That sort of thing. Then doing increases for another year.. and finally listing the best of em on my website. I'm hoping to do at least 200 new listings each year, and at that rate it'd still take me ten years just to list the tomatoes i already have in my inventory. It'll be an ongoing project for many years as i see it. I have access to many more varieties even than i already have thru the seedsavers yearbook and friends i've been trading with for the past 7 years. So, we'll see what gets listed and how fast. Ideally though.. i wouldn't mind having a thousand varieties of each vegetable to list when i start out. But my goal is just a few hundred for now. I know how the nightmare of keeping the inventory straight is already. I've done it before with several thousand veggie varieties selling on ebay. I think i've got a fairly good system for tomatoes and smaller seeds like peppers though. Basic.. but effective. I just make up say 10-20 packets of seeds for each variety.. then with my file system i go and place say 20 varieties of packets in an envelope and file those in order in a long box i have that suits that purpose. I can get several hundred envelopes in one box.. and the rest of the seeds go back into storage till i need em. Sorta works for me.. but we'll see what all i'll need to come up with should demand be higher than expected.

As for my growers network.. well you almost hit the nail on the head. It's mainly made up of seedsavers right now. I got a few breeders who know what they're doing.. and the rest are kind hearted home gardeners who can be easily taught how to save their own seeds. I've even got some seedsavers sending me some of their family treasures to trial and list when i get em increased just cause they want to see em distrubuted to more people. I'll get it set up i'm sure. But, again just one more small piece of the puzzle.

And it seems as if we're on the same page as far as the reimbursment for returned saved seeds. I like the idea of giving credit for any of the other varieties i sell on the site.. or even flat out straight trades for quantities i wouldn't have to do increases on. That and an option for cash payments for whatever they grow. I'd make it a choice. One thing i do know is on the website i am going to be offering trades to those who growout any of my products. Sorta like J.L. Hudson does on his site if you've ever heard of him. I do have a habit of stealing others good ideas... so it'll be a mixmatch of all the good ideas i've seen thruout my trading and saving years. Like the selection idea.. of offering everything in the seedsavers yearbook first. then everything in the world. Like the trading and offering to purchase like J.L.'s site. Like the idea of offering consignment type sales for breeders and other seedsavers on the site. And i like the idea of reaching the number of customers that ebay would have. Just a matter of putting it all into action.

And as for your small scale comment.. well this is small scale for me. If i had unlimited resources i'd be doing it all the first year. I'd have 25,000 varieties all set to go right off the bat. That's what the SSE has in their inventory. But, unlike a non profit again.. i gotta work my way up financially to do all the improvements. A little each year. So, yah.. it's really small scale compared with what i could do with some good people and better financials.

So there ya have it frank.. My little idea of utopia.. I'll be glad to have ya grow anything and everything ya want. If for nothing else than to distrubute them in your own country like i'm trying to do here.

Thanks for the feedback...
Dave

[americangardener]

Oct 20, 2008 2:35:09 GMT -5 canadamike said:

I would start by a smaller offering, relying on what I have and a core group of suppliers, then expand. In tomatoes, you might end up in troubles with the potato leafs, so I guess the RL should make up the bulk at first.
As for peppers, this out crossing thing is pure mystery to me. I am ok here, I get them true to seeds, but in all honesty I have not saved tons of them, and some people seem to be like me while some others have a lot of out crossing. The situation is the same in beans.

Yeah.. i'm starting small alright Michel.. considering there's over 20,000 tomato varieties to go thru and more being developed every day. Even if i were to offer 1,000 new ones every year it'd be small in comparison to what it could be. I'll have ta think bout the potato leaf regular leaf thing. I've never really noticed any problems, but then i use organza bags on mine. Two or three organza bags and i can pretty much cover every blossom set that comes out.. just keep moving the bags up the plant.

Peppers like ya said.. are a horse of a whole different color. I'm thinking i'll just be doing small offerings of those to begin with. It's gonna take longer to set up a network of breeders and growers who know what they're doing with those. I'm gonna get some wedding veil material and make some isolation cages.. and i have another woman who's trying to make whole plant isolation bags for those right now. Just it'll take a little while to get the peppers set up right. We'll see how it goes... but they are really popular with home gardeners even if a little difficult to save seeds from. I'm gonna try and list whatever i can to start out with.. even if i have to buy pounds of seeds from other suppliers to get started.

Beans, i haven't seen any evidence of crossing without using netting or anything. I've noticed my seeds are bout twice the size of the ones i planted.. but other than some slightly darker colorations they're all coming out pretty much exactly the same patterns on the seeds as the originals. Course those will be a few more years before hitting the market anyways.. still got to do alot more increases.. and in isolation to verify they're coming back true each year. Again.. maybe start out with purchasing pounds from reliable sources to get those first listed.

So, yeah.. you'll get your smaller offering i guess Michel.. not cause i really want it small,, just cause that's what i've got to work with.

I really do apprecaite all your input though.. if ya got any other ideas, or critisims.. i'm always ready to listen.

Dave

[jason]

Hey Dave,

I'm definitely interested and supportive for what you are trying to do, just don't really have any advise. Just know that you are definitely not talking to a wall.

[americangardener]

Oct 20, 2008 10:08:32 GMT -5 jason said:

Hey Dave,

I'm definitely interested and supportive for what you are trying to do, just don't really have any advise. Just know that you are definitely not talking to a wall.

Thanks Jason...

Sometimes it's nice just to be able to vent and to know you're being heard. It's nice to know someone is listening.

Anyways.. now ya give me a chance to get more off my chest. As ya all know i belong to a number of other forumns besides this one. It's been brought up in other forumns about how some of the "bigshots" that run em aren't in favor of me running my trials or even starting my own business for that matter. Seems there's some fear i might be up to something or that i might be trying to steal their regular customers.

Let me just say to anyone who comes and reads this.. I never lie, i never cheat, and i never steal. It's one of my moral values i guess if ya want to call it that. Just the way i live my life.

As for the trials.. i actually hadn't intended to use any of em when i first started them as something for business use. I had only been convinced by a friend to start the seed company up earlier than expected just a few months ago. But, now.. yes they're being used to make a profit or whatever anyone wants to believe. At some point in time these varieties.. every one of em will be available to anyone who wants to buy em. So, make no mistake i'm using my trials for gain.. be it knowledge, contacts, growers, or profit. I'm not doing anything any member couldn't or isn't already doing themselves. And i've got no secrets as you can plainly read right here. I don't always tell everyone everything that goes on in my head.. and i do tell people what they want to hear i hope... but, i'm not exactly an open book. But, if anyone ever has any doubts bout my not lying, cheating or stealing.. ya can go back thru every post i've ever made in every forumn and ya can't find a single one trying to deceive anyone.

Now Alan knows all about my ideas.. knows about the trials, and knows everything about my business plans. So, i'm glad to say i am comfortable among friends here. That's one thing i love about this forumn is it's a family.. and like family we support each other rather than try to compete.

Well guess i'm done ranting.. i'll get off the soapbox now.. just i wanted to clear the air for some things i've heard being said lately. Beleive it or not some of my voulenteers from last year are against coming here to participate this year. One even got mad at me for not telling her. All i can say is last year this wasn't even thought of yet. This year it's the best place to be. And sorry bout that.

Dave

[americangardener]

MOTIVES

Just another quick thought here. I suppose if anyone is reading this wanting to know bout setting up business.. i should mention it's a good idea to get your motives straight first. It's ok just to say i want as much money as fast as possible. That's a good motive. Just not one of mine.

My motives as i've stated elsewhere around the web are to make a living and to help as many people as possible along the way. And to love what i do. Wether it's rototilling other peoples gardens when i was 16 for $80 an hour or building homes.. I've made money before.. and i hope i've helped people along the way. I've helped people and not made a penny before too.. the money isn't the most important motive i have from this new corporation.

Again.. with multiple motives... My main motive as i've stated is to start a company my daughters could inherit. My other motives of course would be to help people along the way, and to make enough profit for the corporation to expand. My motive is to make every open pollinated vegetable seed available to everyone around the world. Wether it's thru trading or selling. May seem like simple motives.. but that's what they are.

Dave

[canadamike]

One of the reason why there was no feed back might have been my friend Dave talking a lot about incorporation issues, quite a technical and dreadfully dry topic for almost everybody, and for us non americans a non issue, since our laws are so different....