Salvia Divinorum

[flowerpower]

Alan, how are the plants doing? Have you rooted any cuttings yet?

[winter unfazed]

I don't mean to be a wet blanket, but you should know that Diviner's Sage is a highly dangerous hallucinogen, and is banned from many herbal pharmacopoeias. In some countries it is a criminal offense to possess Salvia divinorum.

It is a common misconception that Diviner's Sage is similar to reefer, or marihuana. This is a poor comparison: Diviner's sage is much more powerful "stuff"; it could be considered the downer equivalent of heroin. Users of diviner's sage can experience "bad trips" followed by illness and depression which can last for days. It is thought to be addictive, although not as much as some other drugs are.

In Delaware there is a new statute, known as "Brett's Law", which bans all Salvia divinorum from being sold or grown in the state. Brett Chidester was "done in" by a combination of alcohol and salvia at the age of 17 (he reportedly experienced depression and physical illness, and ultimately committed suicide). It is said that Brett was overheard talking to his fiancee about "magic mint", a slang name for Salvia divinorum, shortly before his death. His mother had also found some S.D. in the house, several months prior, and he confessed he had smoked some.

There is no recognized medical use for Diviner's Sage, and frankly no reason to grow it. Don't walk away from Salvia divinorum; RUN from Salvia divinorum. It's just "sage" advice, so to speak.

[americangardener]

Sept 1, 2008 9:28:40 GMT -5 winter unfazed said:

It is a common misconception that Diviner's Sage is similar to reefer, or marihuana. This is a poor comparison: Diviner's sage is much more powerful "stuff"; it could be considered the downer equivalent of heroin. Users of diviner's sage can experience "bad trips" followed by illness and depression which can last for days. It is thought to be addictive, although not as much as some other drugs are.

There is no recognized medical use for Diviner's Sage, and frankly no reason to grow it. Don't walk away from Salvia divinorum; RUN from Salvia divinorum. It's just "sage" advice, so to speak.

It's nice to see the concern JR... I hope everyone who wasn't already aware of those facts will be now. I know FP discussed it being illegal in some states but didn't go into the why.

I already knew of the effects of smoking it long ago, and i think Alan and Flower were already aware of em too.. but just in case there are some who didn't know bout it your warning should be good for them.

I've never heard of anyone confusing the Salvia with cannabis before.. but with kids nowadays nothing would surprise me. You're right it is a more powerfull hallucinogen since cannabis isn't one. I seriously doubt about it being addictive too.

But, just in case there are any kids reading this.. don't try anything without knowing everything you can about it... that'd be just stupid. Salvia is said to be used for spiritual purposes and the users are said to be able to communicate with their dead ancestors. Unless ya want to really be able to communicate with em.. don't try anything you know nothing about.

There JR.. everyone knows now that it's not to be smoked.

Dave

[plantsnobin]

Alan gave me a plant that is doing well, not reallly growing fast, but maintaining. I have no intentions of using the plant to take any trips, good or bad. While it is true that some substances can unmask underlying psychosis, salvia is certainly not the only one. Knee-jerk legislation is not the answer to anything. Parents often look for someone, or something to blame in a situation like this, anything that will make them feel less guilty. Could it be that this kid had been depressed for months, and the mother just didn't want to deal with it? I don't know, and neither do you. You have no right to tell anyone that there is 'no reason to grow it'.

[jason]

I don't mean to be a wet blanket either, and have no intention of disrespecting you winter unfazed but I think your last post is pretty silly.

First off there is no background to conclude that salvia divinorum is "highly dangerous". I'm actually not sure that there has been enough research to conclude either way, but it has likely been used traditionally in indigenous regions of mexico for a very long time. There is also NOTHING that suggests that it is addictive. Most everyone I have talked to who has tried it said they would never do it again. You are right that many find it a completely undesirable experience and are themselves misguided in looking to get "high".

The Brett Chidester thing is ridiculous. He was drinking alcohol heavily and on prescription medications that have been linked to suicide. Making the jump that it was because of salvia d. was his mom's doing, who forced the issue until it was listed as his cause of death.

There is in fact new research suggesting salvia's use as an herbal anti-depressant and an aid in breaking away from drug addictions. Of course this isn't using the powerful extractions sold for smoking all over the place. Smoking this herb was never it's traditional use.

Plants are incredible, they should be respected, and banning and criminalizing them is ignorant and dellusional in my opinion. Sage advice would be not judging a plant you have never grown or researched, labeling it simply 'bad' because fox news said so.

[jason]

Plantsnobin, are you growing it in mostly shade? It's really a shade plant and doesn't grow too well with lots of sun in some places.

[plantsnobin]

Jason, I have it in a greenhouse that has shadecloth, I haven't tried to root any cuttings yet because it is just too hot right now. But, this week I will be starting to propagate many plants under mist for sell next year. I just have a small homemade greenhouse, and grow perennials. I am not any good at the business end of it and usually just give plants to people I like. I am on a heavily traveled road, and could do very well if I would just do it. I always have good intentions in the spring, but then the temps start to climb and......

[Alan]

Earlier this season I rooted 10 cuttings, 9 of which survived and thrived. I have my plants on our porch, it is south facing but the banister gives them plenty of shade. I just recently harvested the plants (cut them back hard about a week ago) and they are already re-growing. It is not nearly as hard to grow and maintain as it is often described.

I myself have tried Salvia, while I am not advocating such a thing, for some I think it can be considered a healing and learning experience, it is used to reflect upon life more than it is abused in an ill-begoten manner to attain a "high". After all, 6,000 years of use and internal working knowledge as experienced by the Mazteca indians says a lot for any crop in my eyes. Lots of things can be considered drugs, few can be considered medicine, just as lots of things can be attributed to the suicide of a teen while the true answer probably lies in the parenting skills of the childs mother and father. Not all things are red state, blue state. Some of them cross cultural and historical lines and I for one refuse to enter into a debate about what "Salvia" can and canot be considered and weather it is considered "legal", "moral", or "ethical" for use by any group other than my own flock of people here in Pekin Indiana. It is useless to debate such things, however I do appreciate you concern and I do encourage anyone with an interest in "cultigens" or "etheogens" to do some serious research and weigh the pros and cons. When used in a traditional healing practice and treated with the respect that they deserve, cultigens can not in my mind be considered a "drug", a term more derrivitave of the many chemicals and inbalances caused by the chemicals that are everyday pumped into our food and water supply.

I will note that I do not encourage the use of any mind altering substances by teenagers; this includes narcotics as well as alcohol and etheogens. However, if your child is using or more appropriately abusing any of these substances, the question you have to ask yourself is; "What don't I know about my child, or what have I not adequetly prepared myself for as a parent and how can I improve upon this experience.". However, I fear the answer has is far more complicated than peer pressure and cultural refrences such as movies, t.v., and music and is closer to the root of truth in the alienation from the natural world that humans feel between the ages of 15-22, looking for something "real", exploring the boundaries of the "synthetic" created world and the "real" world that lies beneath the concrete jungles of the United States.

With that said, the plant is beautiful, rare, historical, and faces an uncertain future, while also making a terrific addition to any garden. It would be no worse in anyones garden than are seeds planted and grown from morning glories or datura and if for no other reason it deserves preservation for it's historical properties and unique branch of evolutionary traits in the salvia family.

-Alan

[flowerpower]

It's terrible for anyone to die at 17. But I bet alcohol had a much bigger role than Salvia Divinorum. Alcohol poisoning is not that uncommon. There are plenty of plants that can get you high. So do we all stop growing morning glory because of its historical uses in Mexico? I think all types of plants should be preserved. Maybe S.divinorum will prove to have some real medicinal value.

Alan, can I still get a cutting or 2?

[jason]

Plantsnobin, I think most of our plans change once spring and summer are here. I know mine do. At least you can surround yourself with plants.

I've been learning about Salvia divinorum the hard way. I was given a plant by a friend this spring, and though I researched its needs and wants I had to figure some things out myself.

This picture was a few months ago: (I know)


This is yesterday:


Flowerpower, if you are still looking for a cutting in a few months let me know. I can more than likely get one rooted for you by spring.

[flowerpower]

Nice going Jason. That looks really good. It's very healthy.

[Alan]

Nice pics Jason.

Mine are looking good again. They get a bit shabby for a few days after pruning but then pick right back up like nothing ever happened to them. They are a lot easier to care for than what some people make out that they are.


Anyhow, I'll be starting some cuttings this week and should be able to get some out before it gets to cold to ship. I'll keep everybody updated as to when I'll have some available.

Note: I will not ship to cities or states where the legality is questionable in order to protect both myself and the person requesting a cuting.

[jason]

Hey alan,

Which strains did you end up growing? My plant is a blosser, I believe that both blosser and wasson and hoffman strains are from plants in the wild. Pictures of Luna and some of the other varieties look pretty neat.

[Alan]

I think I actually ended up ordering one or two of everything from Sage Wisdom. Blosser, Wasson and Hoffman, Luna, and I can't recal the names of the others. I think there were 9 or so all together, I have them all labeled. Even though they are different strains, for the most part all of the genetic diversity is gone out of this plant. When looking at the strains I have the only real difference is in how oblate the leaf is and maybe how serrated the edges are. A couple of the strains also seem to grow a little bushier and not as tall as the others. All of them have done outstandingly well however.

[jason]

If you are able to get them to flower where you are, you ought to try and cross them with other sage species. I think that is where the breeding possibilities are. I have a list of the chromosome numbers in different salvias somewhere if you are interested. A sorta friend is going to try a graft onto S. splendens soon to see if it affects the flowering and growth. Interesting stuff, anyway.