MikeM
grub
frost-free 365.25 + clayish soil + altitude 210m + latitude 34S + rain 848mm/yr
Posts: 91
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Post by MikeM on Nov 20, 2008 2:34:38 GMT -5
Where I am we get a lot of Fruit Flies/Pumkpin Flies (not sure, but I think they're the same thing) at exactly the time that Cucurbits are fruiting, resulting in massive losses -- near 100%. Saving seed from Cucurbits is justabout impossible for me!
I've tried using a fine-woven shade-net (12% shading) as a bug-excluder, and it was partially successful, but requires tremendous vigilance at a busy time of year. Any fruit inside the cage that gets stung must be removed as soon as possible, lest the flies hatch out inside the cage and sting every last squash.
For eating it's not the end of the world; we just cut out the stung portions of Squashes and Pumkpins and eat the rest, though it does mean we're largely unable to keep them for off-season eating.
So: Looking for ideas and suggestions to try. Or should I just give up on trying to save Squash seed? (Needless to say, sprays/poisons are not on my list of acceptable remedies.)
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Post by bunkie on Nov 20, 2008 8:04:40 GMT -5
mikro2nd, we just put our cleaned seeds between two pieces of newspaper, and as the paper dries, so do the seeds. if we have a flying insect problem, i take a small plastic yogurt container and put a few splashes of our homemade wine in it, and then cover it with plastic and an elestic band around to hold it in place. then i make some slashes in the plastic covering. this allows the fruitflies and other bugs to crawl in, but not get out. i usually leave this containe beside the infested area.
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MikeM
grub
frost-free 365.25 + clayish soil + altitude 210m + latitude 34S + rain 848mm/yr
Posts: 91
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Post by MikeM on Nov 20, 2008 12:37:16 GMT -5
OK -- I assumed that Fruit Flies are pretty much the same everywhere... evidently not. The Flies sting the immature fruit, and lay their eggs inside the fruit. The maggots then hatch out and consume the fruit from the inside, leaving a brown, slimy mess. I never seldom get as far as getting mature seed...
Tha "traditional" countermeasure is a poisoned syrup, spattered onto the leaves where it crystalises into poisonous sugary lumps. The Flies are attracted to the sugary lumps on the leaves, and thus fewer fruits get stung. Of course it all washes off in the rain, anyway....
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Post by canadamike on Nov 20, 2008 13:49:21 GMT -5
I would buy some diatomaecious earth, it is organic and bsically just silicium with a couple of minerals in it, mix it with water, add a couple of drops of dish soap and spay. That should take care of them.
I would also try to add 5-6 drop of peppermint oil. It works with cucumber beetles, and I suspect it repels much more than the said beetles. A lot of insects are repelled by the strong oils of herbs, it is sure worth a try. Sticky traps are also effective usually...
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Post by ottawagardener on Nov 20, 2008 14:16:44 GMT -5
Have you tried a light weight floating row cover (to act similar to shade cloth, I guess) as a way of excluding them assuming they can't make it through the fine spun poly. It would be tricky for pollination and as you said you would have to be vigilant about covering the whole row with all the edges secure. I suppose, depending on your climate, it might make things a bit roasty as it does increase the temperature underneath.
We don't have that problem here and I don't envy you.
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MikeM
grub
frost-free 365.25 + clayish soil + altitude 210m + latitude 34S + rain 848mm/yr
Posts: 91
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Post by MikeM on Nov 22, 2008 1:42:53 GMT -5
Have you tried a light weight floating row cover Sadly unobtainable here  Importing the stuff would just cost too much, hence my trial with shadecloth as a substitute. I guess it would suffer from the same problem, though: just let one little bug get in, and, if you're not vigilant, things could get pretty ugly pretty quickly. |
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MikeM
grub
frost-free 365.25 + clayish soil + altitude 210m + latitude 34S + rain 848mm/yr
Posts: 91
|
Post by MikeM on Nov 22, 2008 1:47:18 GMT -5
I would buy some diatomaecious earth... Cool! Thanks for that suggestion. I've not heard of using diatomaceous earth as a bug control before. I'll give it a try later this season, since I have a whole lot of very old Yellow Crookneck Squash seed (given to me by a friend) that I'm very keen to rescue (assuming I can get some of them to germinate -- trials to date have not been promising.) |
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Post by canadamike on Nov 22, 2008 2:03:21 GMT -5
That's the only use for it we have here, along with food addtive for ....bug control in the bowels of farm animals. There is extensive litterature on it. I would also seriously try peppermint oil. It reppels lots of insect. We do not see much bugs on mint, don't we?
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Post by orflo on Nov 22, 2008 2:10:14 GMT -5
Have you searched for natural enemies? This is one that's used for at least one fruit fly species: www.pestscience.com/PDF/BNIra661.pdf - Natural enemies have several advantages: they maintain some sort of a balance between the (in your case) squash and fruit flies, and if these natural enemies have the conditions they like, they will stay for at least a few years, parasiting again and again. I don't know whether these are available in SA... Another option can be the use of feromones, but I don't know if they exist already for fruit-flies, and these feromones are usually very species-related, so you have to find out what sort of fruit-fly you really have... |
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Post by ottawagardener on Nov 22, 2008 18:39:48 GMT -5
So I have been thinking about your problem and it popped into my head that you might want to try bagging your fruit somehow. I am not sure how small a weave the flies can get into but maybe nylon or some other material? I imagine you'd have to catch the fruit really early, and probably have to hand pollinate. I then read the same idea in the below article (bagging) but didn't read it in depth to find out what they meant by that. Is it the melon fly that is pestering you?: www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1615247I hope this is useful (assuming of course that you haven't already read this article), Telsing |
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Post by sandbar on Nov 22, 2008 23:20:33 GMT -5
That's the only use for it we have here, along with food addtive for ....bug control in the bowels of farm animals. There is extensive litterature on it. I would also seriously try peppermint oil. It reppels lots of insect. We do not see much bugs on mint, don't we? Mike, is Peppermint Oil effective with squash bugs? I'm looking for a good answer to my squash bug problem which exploded last year as I quadrupled my squash plantings. |
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Post by canadamike on Nov 23, 2008 0:02:26 GMT -5
I sure would try it. I never even saw one around here, in 23 years. It sure gets rid of cucumber beetles, bot species. Sprayed mixed with soap, the soap kills the bugs on contact ( which does not mean immediatly) by covering them and suffocating them ( I think) but the peppermint oil, and I would put 1000$ on a bet if I was a gambler, other powerful essential oils too. Most bug hate these smells, that's why strong herbs are so rarely troubled by pests, and these powerful aromas, I am sure, fool them a lot as they hide the ones they are zooming on.
That's why some breeders are going for cucurbits without the bitter gene if I am not mistaken, this bitterness attracts the bugs, and very young plants are very susceptible to more damage. I do not remember the name of it, but there is a squash or other cucurbit that is excellent as a trap crop just because of that bitterness. Maybe somebody here could help us on it, I have totally forgotten the name. I had no real use for it in the good ol'days, no squash bug ever around here and no cucumber beetles ( or almost) in sight until 2 years ago. Now they are soooo numerous it is hard to identify a SPECIFIC favorite of theirs. The order of species preference here goes like this: melons, pepos, moschatas, maximas ( close call between these 2) and finally cucumbers. But I would look it up if I was you. Trap crops are a brilliant strategy.
One alternative would be to intentionaly grow large enough decoy plants and then mistreat them. Once weak, they'll attract the bastards like a magnet. Put them somewhere close to the plants to protect, like at the end of a row, and spray them ( without essential oils) like there is no tomorrow a few times a day as long as they are around...give the same treatment but with essential oils to the good babies...
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Post by johno on Nov 23, 2008 12:02:15 GMT -5
Have you tried a light weight floating row cover Sadly unobtainable here Importing the stuff would just cost too much, hence my trial with shadecloth as a substitute. I guess it would suffer from the same problem, though: just let one little bug get in, and, if you're not vigilant, things could get pretty ugly pretty quickly. Mosquito netting? Surely that's available there? Maybe it would keep out the fruit flies? |
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Post by grungy on Nov 23, 2008 12:14:47 GMT -5
Okay, I have to ask. Just how big are these fruit flies?
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MikeM
grub
frost-free 365.25 + clayish soil + altitude 210m + latitude 34S + rain 848mm/yr
Posts: 91
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Post by MikeM on Nov 25, 2008 2:59:52 GMT -5
Okay, I have to ask. Just how big are these fruit flies? 3 or 4 mm long. Mosquito netting would work, but its expensive compared to the 12% shadecloth. Bagging would work, too, but means I have to get to the "fruit" almost as soon as the flower forms, as the flies often will sting the fruits when they're really, really tiny, leaving the eggs to wait for the more mature fruit. Natural predators: They must be around. Nobody's used any sprays on the farm in at least 20-25 years, and certainly not in the 13-yeas we've been here. No idea what they would be, though... The other route -- which I plan to follow-up with -- is resistant varieties. I grew Black Futsu for the first time a couple of years ago, and managed to get some harvest -- perhaps 20% of the fruits unaffected. It seems that the skin of Black Futsu Squash is tougher and maybe thicker than other varieties I've been trying. |
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Importing the stuff would just cost too much, hence my trial with shadecloth as a substitute. I guess it would suffer from the same problem, though: just let one little bug get in, and, if you're not vigilant, things could get pretty ugly pretty quickly.
