perennial cabbages

[canadamike]

Mybighair, look here for the cheapest GA3.

And I strongly recommend, like I just did on another thread here, that you get the one gram bags and adjust concentration with the much bigger water volume, an easy way to avoid mistakes. I bought the 10 grams bag, wich should last me until I am 500 years old, and now have to ask a friend, drugstore owner, to use its microgram precise scale. Adjusting frigging micrograms using my big fingers and a teaspoon is a pain in the ass.

www.rarexoticseeds.com/Acid_Gibberellic_Powder_GA3_Poudre_Acide_Gibberellique_Smoke_Seed_Primer.html

They sell all over the world.

[ottawagardener]

I love this picture of walking stick kale in flower (not my pic btw):

www.netservs.freeserve.co.uk/jk.gif

It's positively ornamental.

[stevil]

May 26, 2008 13:50:49 GMT -5 orflo said:

5. sea kale:a very good perennial kale, the young shoots are eaten in spring time, after being bleached. It is an easy plant, if you have a sandy soil (I have a heavy loam soil, despite digging out the soil and putting in the sand, I kept on losing my plants, because of the wetness of the soil). These shoots are very tasty. Seed viability is very short, unlike most of the other brassicas; a better way to propagate them is taking shoots or cuttings from existing plants.
Because of my un-adapted soil, I can't tell how long the plants will last, though I read reports from 8-9 year old plants, still going strong. They do need a bit of protection during wintertime, even over here (they take down to -8 , a wet or dry soil will also make a difference)

Crambe maritima: An old favourite here….well, one of my plants is over 25 years old (yes, I’ve been at it that long…)! Although I mulch my plants to be on the safe side with some seaweed and leaves in the autumn, I also had a plant in another part of the garden without any winter protection for at least 10-years. Therefore, as you mention, I suspect it's the combination of cold and wet that they don't like (as mine have certainly managed -20C). On the other hand, it’s always touch and go overwintering Kale here! My soil is quite heavy, but I added a lot of sand to the Sea Kale bed originally. My original plants were purchased as “thongs” (root cuttings) after I saw an advert in the RHS magazine The Garden. I also now grow the “self-blanching” cultivar Lily White. In the picture below you can see blanched stems of my oldest plant this year (still going strong) – notice the Sea kale “Broccoli”. Compare the unblanched plants of Lily White at the top with standard Sea Kale with reddish petioles at the bottom right.
www.hagepraten.no/gallery/pic.php?mode=large&pic_id=1122
You can also see small seedlings of an Atriplex species which volunteers itself in the seaweed – also an excellent salad plant.

Sea Kale was a real aristocratic vegetable in the Victorian era and clay forcing pots were used in the spring, at least in the UK: www.hagepraten.no/gallery/pic.php?mode=large&pic_id=1123

Sea Kale is also a real beauty when it’s in flower:
www.hagepraten.no/gallery/pic.php?mode=large&pic_id=1124

Another good brassica to blanch and use in spring is Horseradish. I harvest roots and plant them in earth in my cool, dark cellar and when it begins to warm up in late winter, I can harvest blanched shoots which are excellent!
www.hagepraten.no/gallery/pic.php?mode=large&pic_id=1125

[ottawagardener]

I had never thought of using horseradish that way - great great idea! I'll try it in the spring. I do use the young shoots of horseradish as a spicy green. Maybe I'll force some indoors too next year. More uses for horseradish would be great as it pretty much grows itself.

I am growing Lily White Seakale and have not seen seed of any other kind listed. What a pretty purple petiole the other kind have. I wonder if there is a difference in hardiness?

[swisscharrd]

You guys rock my world- thanks to you especially orflo. I have a question. So with them being perennials there is no problem having a brassica in the same bed year after year-? I hope that is not super stupid, I know aspargus is in the same bed etc. but I thought some crops have to be rotated.

[ottawagardener]

I am interested in what other say but I have thought about this and there is a disconnect when it comes to gardening and perennial vegetables with the cardinal rule: rotation.

Lots of flowers are also part of the brassica family and theoretically / actually suffer from many of the same pests. I would not replant a perennial brassica in the same place that one had just grown but otherwise as long as they are living healthy and happy lives then I am not going to worry about fixing it. Of course, if I divide the plant, I might choose to replant all of it in a different location.

Also, plants vary in their tolerance to pests and we vary in our tolerance of pest damage. Some cabbage worms tunnels on the outer leaves of kale irk most of us less than a group of them appearing in the water when we boil our broccoli. In some circumstances it is just too difficult to grow a particular plant in a particular area because of soil disease etc...

Perennial plants that are well established and happy with their living conditions seem to have the health to ward off problems in a situation where an annual would just go to seed to try again or keel over.

Another common theme in dealing with issues in perennial beds is that you use good sanitation - clean up diseased leaves / plants and don't compost (or make sure the problem you're dealing with will be dealt with in the compost). Typically perennials are not grown in large rows of the same plant so scattering or interplanting can create a more diverse ecosystem that is healthier for the garden / soil and hopefully will confuse pests and create barriers to prevent the spread of disease, along with allowing for habitats for predators of the pests.

I think Eric Toensmeier deals with this in his book Perennial Vegetables: From Artichokes to Zuiki Taro, A Gardener's Guide to Over 100 Delicious, Easy-to-Grow Edibles, but I can't remember the details.

I think this is a great question btw!

[stevil]

Some interesting points there, Ottawa!

My experience is that perennial vegetables are more resilient, partly due to their life/harvest cycle being out of phase with traditional crops. For example, pests are more or less absent or much less of a problem than for annuals/biennials during the main harvest season (spring); watering is also not normally required as soil moisture is often high in the spring when growth is at its maximum. They are low maintenance, more or less looking after themselves, requiring little more than a compost/seaweed mulch and weeding now and again.

Concerning the cabbage tribe, our main problem here is with cabbage white butterfly and moths such as the Diamond Back, cabbage root fly and slugs. With limited time, I use durable Enviromesh to cover such crops, but never cover perennials. Cabbage butterflies and moths don't seem to be attracted to either Sea Kale or Bunias. However, they do love Horseradish and in some years can cause a lot of leaf damage later in the year, but I still get a good enough crop of roots... Slugs (mainly Deroceras reticulatum) prefers the older leaves of Brassica and mahy other crops and does enjoy a Sea Kale meal later in the season, but doesn't cause any real damage.

However, I don't have a lot of experience with Perennial Cabbages apart from Sea Kale due to difficulty with overwintering kale as we don't have regular snow cover here - even though it's colder it's easier inland due to the snow cover. I also don' t have clubroot - and I understand that Sea Kale is susceptible.

[stevil]

Dec 2, 2008 11:21:21 GMT -5 ottawagardener said:

I am growing Lily White Seakale and have not seen seed of any other kind listed. What a pretty purple petiole the other kind have. I wonder if there is a difference in hardiness?

Does Lily White come true from seed? I've only ever seen plants (or root cuttings) for sale.

I always assumed that my original Sea Kale was close to wild plants, but maybe some selection has been involved? Sea Kale grows wild in Southern Norway and I was sent some seed from wild plants last winter - so we'll see what these look like in time. I remember seeing another selection being advertised in the UK Kitchen Garden magazine a few years ago - can't remember the cultivar name, but it isn't listed in the RHS Plant Finder.

I've also seen Crambe steveniana - it looks very similar and is found in the Black Sea area, but the seed I got hold of didn't germinate (Crambe seed needs to be fresh). Simiarly I'd really like to try Crambe tatarica, but again I've never got seed to germinate... Must try and get a plant.

Finally, another potentially interesting one is Crambe cordifolia, not uncommonly grown as an ornamental here due to its size masses of small white flowers. I plan to blanch my plants in the spring and have a taste... Here are a couple of pictures:

www.hagepraten.no/gallery/pic.php?mode=large&pic_id=1127
www.hagepraten.no/gallery/pic.php?mode=large&pic_id=1128

There's also an annual, Crambe abyssinica which has become a commercial oil crop (at least in the UK).

[ottawagardener]

Nice C. cordifolia... like a cabbage tasting baby's breath. You know you keep adding to my wish list of things I'm curious to grow. Let me know how it tastes.

[hiven]

Frank,

Is ehwiger kohl a Eeuwig moes ? Eeuwig moes is a perennial brassica from Limburg. It is also a Ramosa variant which mainly grow from cutting. It does produce seeds but rarely.

Hiven

[orflo]

Yes, ehwiger kohl is just the German name. I've had flowers once, but they didn't reach the seed stage, probably because they had no pollinators. The trick would be to have a Daubenton and Ehwiger kohl flowering at the same time, but almost impossible to do (I only read once Daubenton flowers, I'm still doubting if this was a 'true' Daubenton)

[canadamike]

You darn weird plants growers are going to turn me into a vegetarian if you keep titillating us in this forum with your stuff

I must resist. I must resist.

I must go back to Nicastro's tomorrow to buy another leg of pork and make some prosciutto. You wont win.. ;D ;D ;D

[hiven]

Sorry Michel, no no no I won't turn you into a vegetarian...I also make my own ham (honey bake ham..yam yammm) ....

[hiven]

Wow, it would be a great cross . Let me know if you finally have it, I will beg for it .

Dec 3, 2008 23:11:21 GMT -5 orflo said:

Yes, ehwiger kohl is just the German name. I've had flowers once, but they didn't reach the seed stage, probably because they had no pollinators. The trick would be to have a Daubenton and Ehwiger kohl flowering at the same time, but almost impossible to do (I only read once Daubenton flowers, I'm still doubting if this was a 'true' Daubenton)

[hiven]

Frank,

Sorry to hijack a bit but this is also about brassica...
Have you any info about Red Cavalier Kale or Flanders Kale and Hungry gap kale ?
I am going to grow them next year...

Thanks,
Hiven