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Post by mybighair on Jan 6, 2009 20:08:18 GMT -5
Another link, to a rather interesting article on Tripsacum dactyloides X Zea diploperennis hybrids and the origin of corn. discovermagazine.com/1997/dec/thecornwar1286May be worth making a Tripsacum dactyloides X Zea diploperennis cross as a starting point for perennial corn. |
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Post by mybighair on Jan 7, 2009 20:37:56 GMT -5
I found a picture of fruit from a F1 cross between Teosinte and maize. It looks a lot more like maize than I expected.  Teosinte ear (Zea mays ssp mexicana) on the left, maize ear on the right, and ear of their F1 hybrid in the center (photo by John Doebley) |
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Post by Alan on Jan 8, 2009 14:42:18 GMT -5
That is a very interesting picture and has me more than a little curious about working with this crop some more in my maize experiments.
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Post by johno on Jan 8, 2009 18:32:59 GMT -5
Me too.
And I found the link on cold temperate perennials useful as well.
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Post by Alan on Jan 8, 2009 20:26:13 GMT -5
As did I Johno. Call this my contribution to more weirdness in all honesty, but I am wondering how many backcrosses between Teosinte and Maize it would take to get triangular type kernals on a normal corn cob, or if it is even possible.
But then you know me, the guy that was earlier today day dreaming about crossing Howling Mob or Country Gentleman to Astronomy Domine to get a multi-colored shoe peg sweet corn that I could call "The Mob Rules" in honor of the Black Sabbath album/song of the same name! Yeah, at some point I have to face it, I am a seed geek! By the way, the picture above is what I call vegetable porn for plant breeders. Specialty vegetable porn if you will.
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Post by atimberline on Jan 8, 2009 22:54:29 GMT -5
I should have known there was a sticking point, diploperennis isn't winter hardy, so while those of us living in cold winter areas could make the initial crosses we would need people in warmer climates to do the grow outs and selection work. ..." mybighair diploperennis isn't winter hardy enough for Kansas perhaps but I had 1 selection that survived our 0 degree F winters in Oregon, USA... The real problem is getting it to bloom at the right time for you to do the crossing. Covering with Garbage cans to make a 12 hour or shorter day will work. For those of you Per. Grain Pioneers that wish to work with Zea perennis or other perennial grass/corn crosses I have a tetraploid Zea mays pool with lots of wild characteristics... Interesting what you found on Trip. x Z. diplo. ...I intended to make that and a number of other wild per. specie crosses. ...bloom time has always been a pain to work around Thanks for sharing the links and all that you found. Tim |
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Post by Alan on Jan 8, 2009 23:25:04 GMT -5
Tim, once the project starts up and you start accepting orders for material, I would be very interested in the tetraploid Zea pool if you have some you can spare. I can work with it long term in the greenhouses as well with the addition of a few grow lights.
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Post by canadamike on Jan 8, 2009 23:39:44 GMT -5
Tim and mybighair, I recommend you educate people on another forum, I am so afraid Alan will cook us some PERIQUE THEOMAIZE recipe with a very weird name, and we all end up stuck to try smoking it!   |
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Post by johno on Jan 9, 2009 1:19:45 GMT -5
Mob Rules!!! HeHe Yeah! HeHe ('Beavis and Butthead' laugh for you Frenchies out there...)
But really, not only a cool name, but a good idea. Shoepeg corn is somewhat of a delicacy for making salsas and dips, amongst other things. It sells higher than other sweet corn because of its superior texture.
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Post by canadamike on Jan 9, 2009 19:15:06 GMT -5
Oups!! We're talking stuff in the mouth here, I woke up. Sells higher!! I don't care for the money aspect, but it means superior...
Better texture...can you elaborate just a tid bit my friend?
Am I permitted to read ''better texture'' as in: ''it would make a better canned corn''? It is a more delicious corn on the cob?
You just can't leave me like this, licking my lips in anticipation. It is winter and they will chap....
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Post by atimberline on Jan 11, 2009 2:03:13 GMT -5
Tim, once the project starts up and you start accepting orders for material, I would be very interested in the tetraploid Zea pool if you have some you can spare. I can work with it long term in the greenhouses as well with the addition of a few grow lights. sure Alan... you'll get some. |
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Post by canadamike on Jan 11, 2009 2:40:50 GMT -5
What can we expect from this pool my friends. Useful botanical traits, or something for the tastebuds? Or both?
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Post by mybighair on Jan 13, 2009 11:44:41 GMT -5
Thanks for the info Tim, I was planning on building tripods around the Zea diploperennis plants and shrouding them in Black plastic to shorten day length, but your dustbin idea sounds a lot easier.
I have been formulating a plan to work around the hardiness issue on this project. I figure that as diploperennis is rhizomus, you could just lift the corn-like F2's in autumn to identify plants that have rhizomes, and bring these rhizomus individuals into a frost free environment to overwinter. You could then back cross these perennial corn plants to sweetcorn and repeat the process of inbreeding, identification of perennial individuals, overwintering, and back crossing until you have a viable perennial population.
At this point you could start selection for hardiness by collecting the seed and leaving the plants in the ground to overwinter, the following season you would just restart from seed and any surviving overwintered plants could be placed in the field to introgress the genes for greater hardiness into the larger population, and then repeat the process until you have a viable hardy population of perennial sweetcorn.
I know that all this will take some time and more than a little luck, but I think it could work. Even if hardiness isn't achievable it provides a means for people in colder climates to breed a perennial sweetcorn.
So what do people think, any amendments or suggestions?
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Post by Alan on Jan 13, 2009 13:38:19 GMT -5
Sounds good to me MyBigHair. I would like to very much be involved in this project.
By the way Tim, I look forward to that material my friend!
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Post by mybighair on Jan 13, 2009 16:24:04 GMT -5
Glad your still up for it Alan, a group of us working together on this are more likely to achieve the goal.
So who else is up for joining a cross continental plant breeding cooperative?
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